Being ITB I find it confuses the consumer when a winery bottles so many vineyard designates of the same varietal, many times they don't know which to ask for and can't remember which vineyard designate they liked, especially when all the labels are the same to them.

Sandy - I'm sorry if I seemed harsh and if I misinterpreted your opinions. My intuition as to your thoughts was built by the comments posted on JL's blog, of which I read virtually every one. Your comments typically are either:

1. CA wines are too expensive and don't deliver the quality for the price [often true]
2. CA winemakers just want your $$ and will throw everything within arm's reach into their ferments (including, I specifically remember, [bleh!] concentrate) to try and please Parker, JL, etc [false].

I take the second a bit personally because, these days, when I participate in events and forums/seminars and the like, this sort of wisdom is passed off as "conventional". They often take a turn more towards an accusatory interrogation:
Did you add water? No
Did you RO the juice? No
Did you add GMO's? No
Did you de-alc? No
Did you add concentrate? No
Did you filter? No
Did you add Syrah to your Pinot? No
Did you micro-ox? No
Did you remove VA/4EP, etc? No
"C'mon....you must have done something shady....!"

Rather than discussing the merits of the wine, or, more interesting to me, the particulars of the vineyard (I'm a soil science geek). CA wines tend to be fruitier than their Euro counterparts, and more alcoholic. [The collective] We don't feel the need to apologize for that - the growing conditions dictate it. There are still plenty of worldclass wines being made here.

Anyways, to answer your question: Logistically, our winemaking is pretty simple, so we could theoretically bottle everything seperately. We don't, of course. We have vineyards that have passed the tests previously posted and are considered SVD's until proven not. If proven not, by being not good enough to stand on their own, or not interesting, individual barrels or lots are declassified into an AVA blend or sold in bulk. Each year, wines that we find interesting and want to see strut their stuff for the long term are bottled in small amounts for our own edification and/or the wine club.

Some years, there are a lot of wines that are distinctive and can stand on their own 2 feet. However, we don't bottle all of them separately. Again, they need to do it consistently. A second or third year of catching our eye will merit a bottling, and possibly even SVD status (again, provided it meets the criteria posted before).

Some years, very few of the blend-slated wines put their hand up. And some of the SVD wines aren't worthy of their status either...they get put into an AVA blend or sold off.

If one were inclined, you could also push distinctiveness with winemaking inputs. Picking earlier (or later), using more (or less) whole cluster, field blends or different blend makeups, different barrel signatures, and so on will make wines different from one another that wouldn't necessarily be so without the inputs. We don't do this and keep the winemaking pretty uniform, but are always experimenting. For the record, I don't consider those things to be outside the lines. Some vineyards do better being picked earlier or later than others, are more amenable to stem inclusion, etc. That's a fact.

So, I don't have an exact number for you. In a given year, I bottle a red AVA blend or two and about 5-6 red SVD's as well as a couple of smaller experimental wine lots. This is out of working with about 30 different vineyards.

Winerugger, Thanks, so I guess your number is 7-8. Seems reasonable. I can state that there are several operations your size(guessing who you are) that bottles many more.

Not being picky, but I did notice you didn't include mega-Purple in your lists of "no's'.But maybe it was an oversight, anyway your wines speak for themselves.

Good luck, I always enjoyed your comments and opinions on JL's blogs. Thanks for the insights.

I honestly don't think you can put an absolute number on this. If a winery can source from different vineyards AND make unique, distinctive wines from each, sales and marketing aside, why should they NOT release each as a SVD?

If the wines taste too similar, then I agree more is actually less and they should decrease the number and/or blend some off . . .

You mention Nickel and Nickel and say that they simply have too many - do you say this because they all taste the same or because you don't want to / care to purchase all of them? If it is the former, then they've probably produced too many. If it's the latter, though, then it's a marketing quandry - on their part and yours . . .

Just my $.02 . . .

Sandy -megapurple and concentrate are one and the same.

Winerugger,

Are they the same? I thought megapurple was simply a 'color additive' but did not know that it contained high sugar levels as well. Concentrate, available in many variety-specific forms, is usually pretty darned sweet . . .

Thanks for any clarification you can offer.

Cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by Sandy Fitzgerald:
Winerugger, Thanks, so I guess your number is 7 -8. Seems reasonable. I can state that there are several operations your size(guessing who you are) that bottles many more.

Not being picky, but I did notice you didn't include mega-Purple in your lists of "no's'.But maybe it was an oversight, anyway your wines speak for themselves.

Good luck, I always enjoyed your comments and opinions on JL's blogs. Thanks for the insights.

You've wasted all this time and I told you the proper number was seven a long time ago......

Hi Larry - By no means am I an expert on Megapurple, but I am positive it is simply grape juice concentrate. From varieties like Rubired, etc. About 60 Brix.

Seven.

I'm going with that.

I could give winerugger a very extensive chemistry lesson, but I believe he knows the truth. Mega-Purple is not a concentrate. It is a distinctive chemical produced from the skins of grape. Nothing natural about the reactions, it involves several intermediate steps to produce a pure final product. All the concentrating in the world will not produce mP. But if you like calling a dog a cat, or Social Security a Trust Fund, fine! I'm tired of arguing the point and its off subject.

??

It be concentrate. Perhaps not as sexy to hate, but that's what it is. Where are you getting this info? What exactly do you think it is?

Central Valley grape juice from tenturier varieties like Rubired, concentrated via vacuum distillation.

quote:

Originally posted by Sandy Fitzgerald:
I could give winerugger a very extensive chemistry lesson...

That would be entertaining. MegaPurple, MegaRed and MegaCherry are grape concentrates. As 'Rugs pointed out, made from Ruby Red and other table grape varieties. The concentrates are primarily used in the food industry. They are very high in sugar. MegaPurple has frequently been used in the wine industry to add blue luster to wines thin in color, and RS to fatten up the mouthfeel and give the wine a silkier texture.

Out of curiosity, Sandy, what's your take on yeast additives?

quote:

Originally posted by Red guy in a blue state:

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:

quote:

Originally posted by P Monty:
I visited an Oregon producer earlier this year, and we stood there and tasted probably 25 or 30 different wines, many single vineyard wines from all over Oregon, Washington, California and even overseas

Sineann?

Sounds like Sineann. I liked every wine they poured me. Solid line up.

I'm glad you liked Sineann. They were very nice and sincere, and I wish them all the best, but my impression on that particular day was that I tasted over two dozen 80-87 point wines in a row. The only one that stood out to me at all was their first vintage of New Zealand pinot noir (I think it was a 2007), but that wasn't available for purchase yet.

Anyways, that's wine for you, we all have our own opinions about it. With you having liked their lineup, I could see how you'd appreciate all the different things they're doing. For me, I kept thinking there was too much quantity and too little character or interest, and perhaps they shouldn't spread themselves so thin.

quote:

Originally posted by P Monty:

quote:

Originally posted by Red guy in a blue state:

quote:

Originally posted by Board-O:

quote:

Originally posted by P Monty:
I visited an Oregon producer earlier this year, and we stood there and tasted probably 25 or 30 different wines, many single vineyard wines from all over Oregon, Washington, California and even overseas

Sineann?

Sounds like Sineann. I liked every wine they poured me. Solid line up.

I'm glad you liked Sineann. They were very nice and sincere, and I wish them all the best, but my impression on that particular day was that I tasted over two dozen 80-87 point wines in a row. The only one that stood out to me at all was their first vintage of New Zealand pinot noir (I think it was a 2007), but that wasn't available for purchase yet.

Anyways, that's wine for you, we all have our own opinions about it. With you having liked their lineup, I could see how you'd appreciate all the different things they're doing. For me, I kept thinking there was too much quantity and too little character or interest, and perhaps they shouldn't spread themselves so thin.

You are right - different strokes for different folks. We visited about 2 years ago. They poured us about 15 to 20 fabulous wines. I would put the scores in the B+ to A range. The Willamette Pinots were wonderful, mostly from the 04 and 05 vintages. The offerings were distinctive in style and flavor profile. We also enjoyed single vineyard Gewurztraminers, a Bordeaux blend or two and even an Oregon Zinfandel. I am sorry that your experience wasn't as good as ours. But as you mentioned, that is wine for you and we all have our own opinions about it. Cheers.

Edited for incorrect word.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Red guy in a blue state,

My experiences last spring at Sineann mirrored P Monty's. I agree with his overall ranking of the wines, but I would just add that the majority were in the 83-85 range. I also agree that the people at the winery are very nice and friendly.

IMO, they would do better concentrating on the local Willamette varietals and narrow their focus along with improving overall quality. But that just IMO.