Gunderloch
F.W. Gymnasium
Kurt Darting

From the limited number of Germans I've had, wines from these producers impressed me most:

- Egon Muller
- JJ Prum
- Robert Weil
- Muller Catoir

I'm FLOORED that out of about 20 people voting Muller-Catoir has only recieved 3 nods.

Yes, their 2002 vintage was sub-par. BUT, seriously, guys, TRY THESE WINES!!!

I planning on bringing at least 1 bottle of Muller Catoir to benchland's get together on March 6, all you Trouble Causing forumites will learn the glories!

p.s. VM, I've only had one Schaefer and it was a while ago, so I couldn't put it on my top 4 list, but I do recall liking it a lot

a

DJ Hombre- I said top 5.

Here is an updated list (not including DJ's selections):

JJ Prum- 15
Gunderloch- 8
Robert Weil- 7
Helmut Donnhoff- 6
Christoffel- 4
Selbach-Oster- 3
Josef Leitz- 2
Egon Muller- 2
Muller-Catoir- 2
Kurt Darting- 2
F.W. Gymnasium- 2
Georg Breuer- 2
Meulenhof- 2
Kesselstaat- 2
Willi Schaefer- 1
Bert Simon- 1
Reinhold Haart- 1
Peter Jacob Kuhn- 1
Franz Kunstler- 1
Studert-Prum- 1
Zilliken- 1
Dr. Loosen- 1
Christoffel-Berres- 1
Schloss Vollrads- 1
Schloss Schonborn- 1
Schloss Johannisberger- 1
Schloss Rheinhartshausen- 1

VM

Whiner 15

The reason why so few votes for certain producers might be that forumnites just do not have easy access to these wines.

VM - I live in the excess.

That, and I tend to skim through posts without really reading.

Alas, here is my top 5

1. Donnhoff
2. Muller-Catoir
3. Monchoff
4. Selbach-Oster
5. Willi Schaefer

Here is the updated list with DJ's picks:

JJ Prum- 15
Gunderloch- 8
Robert Weil- 7
Helmut Donnhoff- 7
Christoffel- 4
Selbach-Oster- 4
Muller-Catoir- 3
Willi Schaefer- 2
Josef Leitz- 2
Egon Muller- 2
Kurt Darting- 2
F.W. Gymnasium- 2
Georg Breuer- 2
Meulenhof- 2
Kesselstaat- 2
Monchoff- 1
Bert Simon- 1
Reinhold Haart- 1
Peter Jacob Kuhn- 1
Franz Kunstler- 1
Studert-Prum- 1
Zilliken- 1
Dr. Loosen- 1
Christoffel-Berres- 1
Schloss Vollrads- 1
Schloss Schonborn- 1
Schloss Johannisberger- 1
Schloss Rheinhartshausen- 1

VM

Who would bother to drink German wine?

LJ

Really surprised not to see a few of these.

1 - Dr. Buerklin-Wolf (making some incredible Pinot Noir right now; blew my mind. Their dry Rieslings are marvels, but tht goes without saying. 2002 Forster Kirchenstueck. [Breath.])
2 - Keller (the most sensational QmP wines, unquestionably, comparable perhaps only to Gunderloch, also in the Rheinhessen, and most other Anbaugebieten--don't want to upset the MSR fringes)
2 - Karthaeuserhofberg
3 - Heymann-Loewenstein
4 - Weingart (QPR!!!)
5 - Mueller-Catoir

How 'bout the next five...?

I was searching for a good reisling to purchase for my wife and came across this thread.

I ended up getting a bottle of the 2003 J. J. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spatlese. Wow! It was excellent.

Now I'm a wine novice and still have trouble distinguishing the different tastes and aromas, but this was definitely a "yummy" wine.

Well if you continue choosing wines as good as the 2003 Prum WS Spatlese, you will be doing pretty well.

Oh, and welcome to the board.

quote:

Originally posted by Jcocktosten:
Well if you continue choosing wines as good as the 2003 Prum WS Spatlese, you will be doing pretty well.

Oh, and welcome to the board.

Thanks. To be honest, I just started getting into wine. It began with a trip to Napa Valley and really took off when I bought a copy of the WS 2004 Top 100 issue.

It's pretty difficult to keep from spending too much money...

quote:

Originally posted by B Squad:

It's pretty difficult to keep from spending too much money...

You are screwed

Welcome B Squad. JJ Prum is IMHO always a winner. While Prum wines are often great in youth - usually showing great balance, minerals, bright acidity and crisp citrus flavors, you might notice some sulphur aromas and even flavors - espicially in the 2002 and 2003s. Prum Rieslings are generally better with some age. Over time these sulphur aromas subside and the wine will develop secondary aromas of petrol(gasoline) or rosewater and the flavors will continue to develop more pronounced minerality and the sweetness will begin to fade slightly while still maintaining that great balance they usually showcase in youth.

Be careful with Prum wines in the 3-7 year range - often German wines go through a "dumb" phase during these times - showing rather poorly. Many can be enjoyed before they turn 3 or after they turn 7 (huge generalization here of course - it is more producer and vintage specific than that).

Also, remember that 2003 is a bit of a strange vintage for Germans. The extreme heat caused flavor profiles to push upwards into the apricot/spiced apple range, sugar levels to soar and acidity to be less pronounced. All indications point to a classic and even 2004 vintage in Germany - albeit with less acclaim and overall quality as 2001 and possibly 2002. If you like Prum, try a Gunderloch, Donnhoff, Schaefer or Weil next for another mind-blowing experience.

Not lots of experience but:

JJ Prum
St Urbans Hof (good $)
Selbach Oster
Bollig Lehnert (real good $ value)
Studert Prum

This board has been quite helpful BTW re Germans

quote:

Originally posted by The Volcano God:
Also, remember that 2003 is a bit of a strange vintage for Germans. The extreme heat caused flavor profiles to push upwards into the apricot/spiced apple range, sugar levels to soar and acidity to be less pronounced. All indications point to a classic and even 2004 vintage in Germany - albeit with less acclaim and overall quality as 2001 and possibly 2002. If you like Prum, try a Gunderloch, Donnhoff, Schaefer or Weil next for another mind-blowing experience.

I did kinda get the apricot flavor. Thanks for the suggestions. Now all I have to do is find a place that sells them.

good topic vino me

my absolute favorites:

- egom müller
- j.j. prüm
- robert weil


worth to mention on this list:

- keller (sometimes with wonderfull tba's
- müller catoir (great eiswein's but futur will show if the new winemaker can do it as goog as the last!
- gunderloch (in my opinion he's getting steep up-hill, and het into the upper group)
- löwenstein (same as gunderloch)
- fritz haag ( wines bevor 1990 were absolutly great!)
- van volxem (is making one of the best dry riesling of the world)
- clemens busch (you should have an eye on this guy)

it sorprises me on the pointing list:
that dönnhof has as many p. as weil!
in my oppinion dönnhof is rated blocks behind!

christoffel, selbach ( i never had a wine moving me)

egon müller (maybe so expensiv that most people don't even tryed it )

loosen and haart has also merit more points

lieser, vollenweider, willi haag, grünhaus
should not be missed on this list

quote:

If you like Prum, try a Gunderloch, Donnhoff, Schaefer or Weil next for another mind-blowing experience.

Those are all excellent choices (well, I've never loved the Rheinhessen flavors, but I appreciate Gunderloch for what it is). But, if you are aiming for a wine more similar to Prum, I'd stay in the Mosel. JJ Christoffel is my other favorite Mosel producer and, while his wines come from different vineyards, the two producers can make some similar wines -- both in quality and flavor profile. While it doesn't apply as much to the '03 vintage, Christoffel has the added bonus of being delicious young more often than Prum, imo.

a

quote:

Originally posted by tsunami:
it sorprises me on the pointing list:
that dönnhof has as many p. as weil!
in my oppinion dönnhof is rated blocks behind!

Donnhoff enjoys a bit of a darling status here in the states. Those that really aren't "into" Rieslings as much, I think, just tend to buy Donnhoff vintage after vintage because it's considered "the best". IMHO this isn't always the case, but because of this producer's reputation, many buy it on name value and don't really seek out new Rieslings to try, even if they might be able to find a wine they like better for much less $$. I think too many people have a couple wines like Donnhoff or Prum and then move on to other styles like Bordeaux, Pinot etc. I've heard it said that all Rieslings just taste like fruit cocktail, but these wines display terroir! The red slate of Nackenheimer Rothenberg, the soil composition of Nahe or Wehlener Sonnenuhr all impart different characteristics.

I'm not saying Donnhoff isn't top notch - it is. But it's not the end-all of German Riesling as many people (especially over on eBob) feel it is. Germany has a lot more to offer than just Donnhoff.

With a few more votes coming in I will update the list:

JJ Prum- 17
Gunderloch- 8
Robert Weil- 8
Helmut Donnhoff- 7
Selbach-Oster- 5
Christoffel- 4
Muller-Catoir- 3
Egon Muller- 3
Willi Schaefer- 2
Josef Leitz- 2
Kurt Darting- 2
F.W. Gymnasium- 2
Georg Breuer- 2
Meulenhof- 2
Kesselstaat- 2
Studert-Prum- 2
Monchoff- 1
Bert Simon- 1
Reinhold Haart- 1
Peter Jacob Kuhn- 1
Franz Kunstler- 1
Zilliken- 1
Dr. Loosen- 1
Christoffel-Berres- 1
Schloss Vollrads- 1
Schloss Schonborn- 1
Schloss Johannisberger- 1
Schloss Rheinhartshausen- 1
St. Urban Hof- 1
Bollig Lehnert- 1

VM

Does anyone who has not already voted want to vote?

VM

Not sure if I was counted, but add 1 to J. J. Prum for me if I wasn't counted...

And 1 for Dr. Loosen - the "Dr. L" is just an amazing deal for under $10.

my favorite german wineries are those located in eastern france.

wschrive

JJ Prum
Selbach-Oster
Christoffel
Monchoff
Dr. Loosen