Originally posted by docorp:Now fast forward to present, I have thus far picked up
Pontet-Canet $79.99 Rausan-Ségla $89.99 Angelus $243.99 Canon-la-Gaffelière $87.99 Caronne Ste. Gemme $13.99 Clos du Marquis $49.99 Cos d'Estournel $183.99 Figeac $119.99 Montrose $104.99 Vieux Chateau Certan $168.99, and Smith Haut Lafitte $69.99.
All these were bought from the display shelves and not futures purchases.
You did really well.
Other than the Caronne Ste Gemme, I have not seen ANY 2005's here in MI. (There was a futures offering that I probably should have taken advantage of.) As you can see from mghomula's post, we seem to be stuck on 2004's here in MI. I think that the mid-west buyer sends all the good stuff to Chicago.
I have some hope that the new store they are building in Bloomfield Hills will be stocked well; I have heard that it will be the largest Costco in the US, and will include several new retailing concepts for Costco.
Posts: 540 | Location: Rochester Hills, Michigan | Registered: Nov 29, 2001
I totally agree With rtnwin. As a person who bought significants amounts of 2000 and 2003's from costco, I've hardly purchased any. They used to charge middle truanch prices (future prices) plus the cost of inflation, but now they are at market prices. Costco has totally changed they way they do business with Bordeaux. If you search you can always find basically the same deal elsewhere. Sure docorp care quote a few bottles, but it seems that he hasn't been involved very long. The old Costco buyer David was a great wine taster and Costco's wine program has suffered since he has left. He wasn't just a customer service manager that got promoted to wine buyer. I would rather buy from a local wine shop, get loyalty points, and support the local business than make two trips to Costco every week hoping they will still have some Bordeaux that is two bucks less than any where else. By the way, let me know if there is any good deals!
I think you must be enjoying your wine too frequently. Costco is letting us buy Lafite and Margeaux at $800 less a bottle than I can buy it at my local wine shop! With no deposit or payment in advance. My four cases only saved me $38,400!!! To heck with loyalty points. Stay away, it leaves more for others.
Originally posted by Hard Times: I think you must be enjoying your wine too frequently. Costco is letting us buy Lafite and Margeaux at $800 less a bottle than I can buy it at my local wine shop! With no deposit or payment in advance. My four cases only saved me $38,400!!! To heck with loyalty points. Stay away, it leaves more for others.
Must be nice to have that kind of expendable income for wine, even if it is for flipping.
---------- "Sometimes when I reflect back on all the wine I drink I feel shame. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the vineyards and all of their hopes and dreams . If I didn't drink this wine, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, 'It is better that I drink this wine and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
- Jack Handy
Posts: 1112 | Location: San Diego | Registered: Jan 17, 2006
Originally posted by Hard Times: I think you must be enjoying your wine too frequently. Costco is letting us buy Lafite and Margeaux at $800 less a bottle than I can buy it at my local wine shop! With no deposit or payment in advance. My four cases only saved me $38,400!!! To heck with loyalty points. Stay away, it leaves more for others.
would you care to share where this Costco is located?
Hard Times has a big bank account, a big mouth, but no valid information... The first growths were still available in the $800-1000 range until the 2005 scores were released by WS, and Parker. Maybe you should stick to something you know much more about like bragging....
Originally posted by Beachrooster: I totally agree With rtnwin. As a person who bought significants amounts of 2000 and 2003's from costco, I've hardly purchased any. They used to charge middle truanch prices (future prices) plus the cost of inflation, but now they are at market prices. Costco has totally changed they way they do business with Bordeaux. If you search you can always find basically the same deal elsewhere. Sure docorp care quote a few bottles, but it seems that he hasn't been involved very long. The old Costco buyer David was a great wine taster and Costco's wine program has suffered since he has left. He wasn't just a customer service manager that got promoted to wine buyer. I would rather buy from a local wine shop, get loyalty points, and support the local business than make two trips to Costco every week hoping they will still have some Bordeaux that is two bucks less than any where else. By the way, let me know if there is any good deals!
Thanks for eluding to my seemingly youthful exuberance, but you are wrong on both accounts - the way Costco does business and the youthful suggestion.
The current 2005 Costco prices are based on their futures prices... no different from the way they did business for the 2000 and 2003 vintages. Sure, some wines are better valued than others (e.g. Pontet Canet) but the bottom line is, they are all on the shelves at Costco at futures + percentage prices. The deeper value of some labels merely reflects after release demand for the individual wines.
If you have paid close attention to Costco's 2000 Bordeaux pricing (and have been tracking them as long as I have) you will have noticed that in 2003 when they first retailed 2000 Bordeaux, they had tremendous prices (Lynch Bages $59.99, Pichon Baron $59.99, Gruaud Larose $39.99, Cos $59.99(?) and all first growths for around $260... Palmer, Angelus, Pavie... I can go on and on). But by 2004, a year after they sold out their futures purchases in 2003 in no time, they restocked many wines at closer to the then retail prices, at little to no bargain compared to other retailers. I believe those higher prices were due to re-stocking probably from the distributors at market rather than futures prices.
I think Parker took some wind out of the 2005 Bordeaux sail by only having 2 wines with 100 point scoring. With 1st-growth futures prices already at $700 compared to 2000's $250, softening economy and Parker's somewhat wait and see "the score may go higher later" attitude towards 2005, the prices are not being driven up after release as much as they had for the 2000 vintage - hence you don't see as good bargains as compared to before.
Costco may have better or lesser bargains for different wines but most of it is not because it changed how it does business but how others are pricing based on demand and supply.
For my taste, 2005 is fabulous. Just earlier I had Pontet-Canet and La Croix St. Georges at my son's H. S. graduation dinner (Gemmell's in Dana Point... great find); they are just fabulous. After not having purchased many because of the seemingly absurdly high futures prices, I now have a second chance to selectively buy them at Costco at still close to futures prices - but without the risks of scores and prices unknown.
Posts: 76 | Location: Orange County, CA | Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Sounds like Orange County has a good selection of the good Bordeaux's. I don't know much about how the futures works and the Costco pricing strategy, I just know I bought 2 bottles of 2004 Lafite Rothschild last weekend at the Aliso Viejo Costco. Lowest price I found anywhere on the web was $400/btl, I bought them at $160/btl. Does anyone know the futures price for this in 2004?
Originally posted by docorp: I now have a second chance to selectively buy them at Costco at still close to futures prices - but without the risks of scores and prices unknown.
Congrats on the great opportunity. Too bad for me that Costco sucks for wine in MI.
This is a bit off topic, but I am curious on your above statement. The risk of score is very low. Futures prices are generally not released until Parker scores are released, and Decanter and WS scores are available online before Parker arrives in the mail. Do ratings change that much that would cause you regret?
And how can you actually contract to buy futures with "prices unknown"?
Posts: 540 | Location: Rochester Hills, Michigan | Registered: Nov 29, 2001
Do ratings change that much that would cause you regret?
Very good question. I ask myself that some time.
First of all, people buy futures for value and anticipated demand. Unless the futures are good value, no one will bother. But buying futures always involves some risk... such as 1997 or perhaps the current 2007.
If you followed this board and eBob's board, you saw the frenzy around May 1st, when RP released his scores. The scores do get attention. Attention does drive demand and pricing.
I always enjoy my wine more when I don't overpay for it. Taken to the extreme, if one employs a good futures buying strategy, and with a little luck, one can drink some outstanding wines for essentially little to no cost... with some selling strategy involved also of course.
Admittedly, I'm somewhat of a point-chaser. The reason is that I don't have the opportunity to barrel taste and I don't always taste personally before buying... like most of us. What else do I have to gauge my buying strategy against besides scores from the likes of RP, JS and others on these boards?
Over the years, I've calibrated my palate to RP and JS by reading their scores and notes while tasting the wines, and through that process have developed some idea when I read their notes, what sort of wine I'm getting... and which ones to get.
But there have been occasions that for example 2002 Mouton, JS scored it 95-100 barrel, but 91 in bottle. Instead of just a single bottle for the vertical, I bought a whole case of this high-end relative mediocrity as futures. Now, as it turned out the $100 per bottle price I paid for was a good investment, as these are currently priced on Cellartracker at $264.50. I will likely drink a few essentially for free (I actually thought the wine was a 95pt'er as of last month) and sell a few; but still, I wouldn't have gotten a whole case of it as futures had I known the bottle score was to go down that much.
It's better to be able to buy at futures prices after all of the scores and retail prices are out than before, don't you think? It takes the price risk out of it. The other risk is of course that you may not find what you want at your Costco... my sympathy.
quote:
And how can you actually contract to buy futures with "prices unknown"?
Sorry, it meant "retail prices" at the time of release after the mark-up etc. Not "futures price" but "price in the future" if you will.
Posts: 76 | Location: Orange County, CA | Registered: Apr 14, 2003
Originally posted by docorp:Now fast forward to present, I have thus far picked up
Pontet-Canet $79.99 Rausan-Ségla $89.99 Angelus $243.99 Canon-la-Gaffelière $87.99 Caronne Ste. Gemme $13.99 Clos du Marquis $49.99 Cos d'Estournel $183.99 Figeac $119.99 Montrose $104.99 Vieux Chateau Certan $168.99, and Smith Haut Lafitte $69.99.
All these were bought from the display shelves and not futures purchases.
You did really well.
Other than the Caronne Ste Gemme, I have not seen ANY 2005's here in MI. (There was a futures offering that I probably should have taken advantage of.) As you can see from mghomula's post, we seem to be stuck on 2004's here in MI. I think that the mid-west buyer sends all the good stuff to Chicago.
I have some hope that the new store they are building in Bloomfield Hills will be stocked well; I have heard that it will be the largest Costco in the US, and will include several new retailing concepts for Costco.
When is that Bloomfield Hills Costco set to open Napacat? I have read good things and given its location in a more affluent suburb I suspect we could get a better selection.
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Posts: 129 | Location: Ohio (Now In Mid Michigan) | Registered: May 01, 2008
dcorp You seem to know more than I orginally thought, but you don't know enough to expand on the business practices of Costco. I probably came across a little harsh. Costco does offer good value on wine and I also purchase wine from them. I do go to Bordeaux to barrel taste and I have met the the costco wine buyers. Costco has changed the way they do business with wine. They are charging higher percentages than in previous years. The prices for the wines of 2000 Gruaud Larose 35.99, Pichon and Lynch 53.99, Cos 73.99. Facts and assumptions.....
Santa Clara Costco (and presumably others in the Bay Area) has some coupons off daily drinkers: eg $2 off Kim Crawford (priced at $12.99), $1 off Folie a Deux Menage a Trois (priced at $6.99) $2.60 off 7 Deadly Zins and some others.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dave Tong BBP,
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Posts: 6600 | Location: Santa Clara Valley AVA | Registered: Jul 02, 2004
Chandler AZ has 5 or 6 bottles left of 2001 Barossa Valley Estates E&E Black Pepper for $49.97 (item # 421003). They also have quite a few bottles of La Chablisienne Chablis Premier Cru Vaillon for $9.97 (item # 923939).
This message has been edited. Last edited by: AZCat,
Kirkland branded '05 Margaux for 17.99. I didn't have time to wait in the Sunday checkout line here (marina del ray,ca) just for this. But if anyone pops open one of these bottles, please let us know if it's worth it.
Originally posted by mghomula: When is that Bloomfield Hills Costco set to open Napacat? I have read good things and given its location in a more affluent suburb I suspect we could get a better selection.
I believe that they are aiming for November. Yes, Bloomfield does get the best selection of higher end wines, but they also disappear faster. I would be surprised to see a good deal last longer than a couple of days. The 2000's went in hours.
Posts: 540 | Location: Rochester Hills, Michigan | Registered: Nov 29, 2001
Costco North Scottsdale, AZ has Clarendon Hills Brookman Syrah 2004 for 54.97 literally a pallet full of 05 Don Melchor for 51.99, and they also just got in Guiraud Sauternes(750) 2005 for 57.99.
Posts: 194 | Location: Phoenix,AZ | Registered: Oct 02, 2007
Originally posted by localwinehobbyist: '05 Pichon Baron is about to hit LA area Costcos. $110.
I picked up a few bottles of 05 Pichon Baron in April at the Fullerton Costo. Also saw it at the Chino Hills store last month along with the Vieux Certan for $168. Item# 174664 05 Pichon Baron $119.99
Posts: 59 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: Apr 15, 2006
Originally posted by localwinehobbyist: '05 Pichon Baron is about to hit LA area Costcos. $110.
Only LA or trickle down to Orange County perhaps?
Went to the Yorba Linda Costco today, nothing much, only standout 04 Dominus. Don't know why this Costco does not seem to get any of the good 05 Bordeaux.
Posts: 1859 | Location: Anaheim Hills, CA | Registered: Nov 18, 2007
Must be nice to have that kind of expendable income for wine, even if it is for flipping.