He is not making fun of the brand name (whatever marketing genius came up with that name should be shot in my opinion).

Instead, he says "As the tasting notes will make clear, the primary market for the wines will be the US, and that market should add 5 points to each of my scores."

Man, that sentence could be read in a TON of different ways. Sarcasm? Anti-Americanism? Laughing at Parker's and/or American's sweet tooth? Different rating scale? Other?

Let's start from the position that absolutely NONE of us knows what he really meant. But what do you think? Speculate away, there are no right answers despite the number of posters who will try to tell you otherwise.

THIII

I think he is saying Americans like sweet wine and sugar more than he himself and most other countries.

Yes... the American sweet tooth is evident, given our love of German riesling, Sauternes, and Port. One of the most hackneyed wine cliches ever!!

What Americans have a predisposition for, IMO, is big wines, with plenty of fruit, lots of oak treatment, and the typical Bob Parker overscoring hyperbole.

Why can't you just take the statement at face value? The US market seems to be going crazy over Mollydooker as far as I can see.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Tong BBP:
Why can't you just take the statement at face value? The US market seems to be going crazy over Mollydooker as far as I can see.

Once upon a time people satisfied themselves with Blue Nun and Mateus Rose. Now it is Yellowtail and Mollydooker.

quote:

Originally posted by the naked truth:

Once upon a time people satisfied themselves with Blue Nun and Mateus Rose. Now it is Yellowtail and Mollydooker.

Ouch.... the truth hurts. I remember those days. But they helped get a lot of people started on their vinous journey.

TH111 - this topic received significant and heated debate on sBob/Squires forum. Apparently it got so hot and "political" that the thread was locked by the moderator. Surprised that it has not received much comment here given the angst Halliday's comment caused over there. The thread is here.

Torbs that Andre Bernarde looks pretty scary to me!

Sometimes Squires stomps all over people posting on the board. Not very hospitable if you ask me.

As for the whole topic, I think some people get upset over nothing. So what if Americans liking sweet wine is a stereotype. We all know the definition of a stereotype and I think we have earned the sweettooth one fair and square. If you are a more discerning individual, take a moment to pat yourself on the back. Why get upset because someone makes a generalization that you feel you are the exception to the the rule on.

mpls, dead right; that Andre guy looks like a (younger) Nelson Mandella having a very bad hair day.

One of the posts I love is Jeff Leve's where he makes this statement. "I found Hallidays comments pejorative to Americans and a silly slap at Parker. He was hoping to stir up controversy to attract attention to him becasue outside of very few people, he remains unknown."

He has assumed his position without knowing the facts behind the statement; and we all know what the word assume stands for!

I guess that 95%+ of Australians who like wine counts as "very few people."

He then again comes up with another "assumed conclusion" which also is based on his thoughts rather than the facts. "The bottom line is... If he was so secure in his place as a wine critic, he would not making attention getting comments solely hoping to stirp up controversy."

Funny that Halliday gets jumped on for suggesting that a wine can be targeted at the American Market. We Brits don't get annoyed at the suggestion of the "British Palate" that likes over-the-hill French wines.

http://marksquires.com/aug99_oldwine.htm

If you had any pride in your home country, you would get mad. Unless your palate sucks that bad.

Personally, I think Halliday was attacking Parker and the American palate. I can't blame him for attacking Parker's palate, but to group all Americans as one? What an idiot. Not everyone is a Parker lemming, with no opinion of their own. Some even occasionally disagree with him.

Though Halliday is not much worse than TORB, with his article full of colonial, convict clap trap. I guess all Aussies are idiots.

Mothra

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Tong BBP:
Why can't you just take the statement at face value? The US market seems to be going crazy over Mollydooker as far as I can see.

Last year, maybe. This year , so far their wine has been terrible!

quote:

Originally posted by Mothra:
Personally, I think Halliday was attacking Parker and the American palate. I can't blame him for attacking Parker's palate, but to group all Americans as one? What an idiot. Not everyone is a Parker lemming, with no opinion of their own. Some even occasionally disagree with him.

Though Halliday is not much worse than TORB, with his article full of colonial, convict clap trap. I guess all Aussies are idiots.

Mothra,

Thank you for such a well thought out and enlightening post. I am more than happy to be compared to Halliday; I am thrilled to bit, the guy garners a huge amount of respect in Australia.

As for calling all Aussies idiots, that says a lot more about you than the people you are maligning.

You say "Personally, I think Halliday was attacking Parker and the American palate." Everyone is entitled to their opinion but there is a big difference between "thinking" something and knowing the facts. You are very strong on the former and deficient on the latter.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Tong BBP:
Funny that Halliday gets jumped on for suggesting that a wine can be targeted at the American Market. We Brits don't get annoyed at the suggestion of the "British Palate" that likes over-the-hill French wines.

http://marksquires.com/aug99_oldwine.htm

No I won't have it Monty, the British are far fonder of lunch-time claret up to the rafters in Brettanomycens.

quote:

Originally posted by Mothra:
If you had any pride in your home country, you would get mad. Unless your palate sucks that bad.

Personally, I think Halliday was attacking Parker and the American palate. I can't blame him for attacking Parker's palate, but to group all Americans as one? What an idiot. Not everyone is a Parker lemming, with no opinion of their own. Some even occasionally disagree with him.

Though Halliday is not much worse than TORB, with his article full of colonial, convict clap trap. I guess all Aussies are idiots.

Mothra

You my fellow are missing the point. Halliday et al are not criticising Americans per se, just the Parker 'cult' that exists. How else can you explain the silly prices that have been reached in the US for some silly wines indeed.

My experience of New York and Wine Spectator forums convinces me that not every American is a Parkerite. Love the Union Square Cafe and the wine list.

However the anti-Parker cult is just as fervent and overlooks the good work that he did in deservedly raising awareness of the Rhone valley in the 80s. Credit where credit is due.

With high prices also comes investment.

It is evident that Robert Parker has an unhealthy influence on American purchasing and the American palate. Without his lofty scores, Mollydooker would be nothing more than another cheap Shiraz sitting on the shelves of numerous retailers who would discount the heck out of it, and may or may not purchase any for the following vintage.

If the USA did not have an idol worship mentatility with respect to RP scores, we would find that wines like Mollydooker would attract an audience much smaller than what it enjoys. Similarly, wines like Cullen, and Mount Mary Quintet would be sought after like the cult wines he applauds.

The fact that in many instances, his score differs from every other major international critic of Australian wines should open our collective eyes to the reality that he likes a style of Shiraz and Aussie Cab that many other sophisticated palates dislike. Our stores would be better off if they posted Haliday's scores next to Parkers to highlight the fact that there are different camps when it comes to Aussie wine. Similar arguments can be made for Spanish wines in many instances. But the retailers want to keep it simple. Highlight wines brought in from Grateful Palate and Eric Soloomon with a good RP score, and keep the scores of other critics off the shelves. The general public likes it this way also. Although America has gained sophistication as a wine consuming nation, we have also become a nation of score whores. (Many on these boards notwithstanding)

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Tong BBP:
Why can't you just take the statement at face value? The US market seems to be going crazy over Mollydooker as far as I can see.

Dave is right. Search Mollydooker on these forums. 215 matches. How many vintages have they released? Two? Go to their website. "If you live in the USA and would like to purchase our wines" click here. Same thing for Australia. The rest of the world?? They don't care.

quote:

Originally posted by Wine Joe:
a nation of score whores. (Many on these boards notwithstanding)

We Australian's are not entirely innocent of this, with the domestic show system driving sales. Indeed many of the participants as judges acknowledge that many of the wines they give Golds and trophies too they wouldn't want to drink, but they are stylistically 'correct' wines.

Fortunately with the rise and rise of a host of key wine writers including Halliday (and websites including Torb's) this provides a level of balance. Some of them even talk about food and wine matching these days - fancy that!

quote:

Originally posted by TORB:
mpls, dead right; that Andre guy looks like a (younger) Nelson Mandella having a very bad hair day.

One of the posts I love is Jeff Leve's where he makes this statement. "I found Hallidays comments pejorative to Americans and a silly slap at Parker. He was hoping to stir up controversy to attract attention to him becasue outside of very few people, he remains unknown."

He has assumed his position without knowing the facts behind the statement; and we all know what the word assume stands for!

I guess that 95%+ of Australians who like wine counts as "very few people."

He then again comes up with another "assumed conclusion" which also is based on his thoughts rather than the facts. "The bottom line is... If he was so secure in his place as a wine critic, he would not making attention getting comments solely hoping to stirp up controversy."

C'mon. You of all people are smart enough to know that there is no logic or objectivity to be found in ebob's site, especially of anyone who remotely does not bestow divinity on Parker and his followers.

While Halliday maybe a little overgeneralizing, Yellow Tail and other jammy wines sell well not only in the Us but in Canada and I am sure amongst a certain(shall we say) less educated wine public in Australia as well.

quote:

Originally posted by mimik:
C'mon. You of all people are smart enough to know that there is no logic or objectivity to be found in ebob's site, especially of anyone who remotely does not bestow divinity on Parker and his followers.

You don't say!

quote:

While Halliday maybe a little overgeneralizing, Yellow Tail and other jammy wines sell well not only in the Us but in Canada and I am sure amongst a certain(shall we say) less educated wine public in Australia as well.

Yep, we do sell a bit of jammy stuff in Oz, but our fangs are not quite as sweet as the US tooth (yet ) but there is no doubt that the "average" wine consumer in Oz has more taste than their US counterpart. After all, over 50% of the wine sold in Oz comes out of a cardboard box (fact), and the wine buying public doesn't think that inferior wines come with screwcaps.

Wine Joe,

Those comments will certainly make you popular in some quarters.... not! (But I did enjoy reading them.) If you want to borrow my flame resistant suit, just let me know.

Wine Joe, I enjoyed reading your comments and agree with much of what you say. However, I really can’t blame some retailers for posting the RP scores as they do since they are in the business of selling wine and in posting the scores they probably sell more of it. But for the most part I think that the better retailers rely more on their staff to assist consumers in their wine purchases than an RP, or any critics’, score.

quote:

The fact that in many instances, his score differs from every other major international critic of Australian wines should open our collective eyes to the reality that he likes a style of Shiraz and Aussie Cab that many other sophisticated palates dislike. Our stores would be better off if they posted Haliday's scores next to Parkers to highlight the fact that there are different camps when it comes to Aussie wine. Similar arguments can be made for Spanish wines in many instances.

Think this said it better than "score whores". Whatever happened to finding critics whose palate matched yours and then using their reccos. as a guide? Like everything in life, as we all know so very well, everyone has different likes and dislikes. Some people have a wider variety of likes than others. That's all.

The WS Advance is out, with the Carnival of Love rated 95 (the same as a Jean-Louis Chave Hermitage) and the Boxer 90. Should we subtract 5 points?

I know my answer.

No need, the wines were tasted blind.