Ok - I need a little advice. I made a purchase through Ebob back a month or two ago from a member who had tons of posts and good feedback in their commerce corner feedback section. The only weird thing was he stated he was selling them for a friend. He took my money and promptly shipped the wine 2nd day as we agreed. No issue there. Weather was no issue and the wine arrived cool to the touch. I bought 3 bottles of Siduri Pinot (2003s) and 3 Loring Pinots(2004s).

I have now opened two of the siduri and one of the lorings and they are all terrible! While I have never opened a bottle of wine I knew was cooked - I think these bottles have all been cooked. I have had the Lorings before and they were VERY VERY different from the one I suspect is cooked. I have not had the Siduri wines before, but the wine I opened does not in anyway appear to be similar to the wine in the TNs on WS or CT. There were no signs of seepage on the bottles, but they are definately bad bottles.

What would you do? Is this a risk of buying from someone? Do I send him a PM and let him know that each of the bottles I have opened so far have been cooked? Do I let it slide and say nothing and just don't do business with the guy again?

Thanks in advance,

G

Good luck. I'd guess cooked also. I never buy from private sources.

Actually, that's a misstatement. I once bought wine from somebody "clearing cellar space." They were cooked. Of course he was "shocked" that I found the wines damaged.

Never again.

quote:

Originally posted by thirsty man:
He took my money and promptly shipped the wine 2nd day as we agreed.

I actually try to stay away from 2nd day air. The wine can be sitting on the tar-mac at an airport for hours on end. I followed a shipment via Fedex to me once that came 2-day. It got to Memphis at 6:30am, then showed it finally leaving Memphis at 7:00pm that night. I'm sure the packages aren't brought into a temp controlled space while they're awaiting transfer. These particular wines were also cool to the touch when I received them, but when I opened one....it was cooked.

At least with ground, the packages are most likely in a truck for most of their journey....not sitting in the sun at the airport.

You can certainly email him and let him know what happened, but I wouldn't expect him to do anything about it. You have nothing to lose in at least contacting him. Chances are, it was exposed to heat during shipping and he wasn't trying to sell you bad wine (considering that he had a history of good feedback).

The first step should always be to contact the seller. You never know, he may try to make it right or you may just be out of luck. I doubt he intentionally tried to move known bad wine as it sounds like he has a reputation to uphold. I'm sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience

I agree. Contact the seller and post your review on eBob since that is where you found other reviews on the seller. Other should have an opportunity to know your experience.

quote:

Originally posted by snipes:
The first step should always be to contact the seller. You never know, he may try to make it right or you may just be out of luck. I doubt he intentionally tried to move known bad wine as it sounds like he has a reputation to uphold. I'm sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience

Agree. At the very least, he can decide not to sell wine for that particular "friend" again.

This is why I stay away from buying from people on the net. If you go through a wholesaler or retailer you would have a better chance of getting your money back. I bought some wine from wine access and they let me send it back because I didn't like the wine. It was Cheateau Jean Faure St Emilion 2004 and it was terrible.

quote:

Originally posted by Foghorn Leghorn:
I actually try to stay away from 2nd day air.

At least with ground, the packages are most likely in a truck for most of their journey....not sitting in the sun at the airport.

Excellant advice.

Ground is always my first choice, for this very reason.

quote:

Originally posted by KSC02:

quote:

Originally posted by Foghorn Leghorn:
I actually try to stay away from 2nd day air.

At least with ground, the packages are most likely in a truck for most of their journey....not sitting in the sun at the airport.

Excellant advice.

Ground is always my first choice, for this very reason.

Really? Interesting stuff and until Foghorn stated it I never really gave it much thought. I assumed that second day air was always better than 7 day cross country trip. That's what ground from Cali is to me. Is this a common feeling among forumites?

quote:

Originally posted by KSC02:

quote:
Originally posted by Foghorn Leghorn:
I actually try to stay away from 2nd day air.

At least with ground, the packages are most likely in a truck for most of their journey....not sitting in the sun at the airport.

Excellant advice.

Ground is always my first choice, for this very reason.


Really? Interesting stuff and until Foghorn stated it I never really gave it much thought. I assumed that second day air was always better than 7 day cross country trip. That's what ground from Cali is to me. Is this a common feeling among forumites?

The package was being shipped from NJ to TN and for that route - 2nd day is ground. Regardless of whether the wine was in a truck or on a plane. It came from NJ to TN and temps never climbed above 70 (in fact it rained one of the days).

I sent the Guy a PM and will wait to hear from him. Quite frankly, I expect to hear a bit about about title passing, yada yada.

This is my sixth time purchasing from a private party and will probably be my last. The first four went great, the wine was good. The last two were terrible experiences. This guy sends cooked wine and the next guy sends the wine to the address on the check - instead of to my business address that I asked him to use. That wine sat for 2 days on my front door step (no shade) because I was out of town (one day it got into the upper 70s). All 8 bottles showed signs of seepage. Luckily after raising a ruckus, he agreed to refund my money and I through out the wine. From now on it is retailers, winery direct, and close friends only. Thanks,

G

How could the wine seep if the bottles were standing upright on your front step? Even if the bottles were sideways for two days, seepage seems unlikely unless the corks were badly defective to begin with. Upper 70's for one day is not a disaster. I bet 98% of all wine sold across the southern U.S. in summertime has seen upper 70's for at least a day without any seepage, and most of the time, without any flavor degradation.

quote:

How could the wine seep if the bottles were standing upright on your front step? Even if the bottles were sideways for two days, seepage seems unlikely unless the corks were badly defective to begin with. Upper 70's for one day is not a disaster. I bet 98% of all wine sold across the southern U.S. in summertime has seen upper 70's for at least a day without any seepage, and most of the time, without any flavor degradation.

They were on their sides because the box the guy shipped put them on their side, three at a time - stacked on top of each other. They spent 3 days gettings here and then two sitting on my front porch - where the sun beat down on them with no shade. For all I know the seepage could have occurred when they were shipped to him and all he did was open the box, see the seepage, close it and re-sell. When I opened the box and touched the wine, it was very warm and each of the bottles showed seepage (some of it was dry and some was still damp).

As an update on the original question:

The guy sent it on to his friend and is going to get back to me. He was surprised and was very polite. Hope this works out.

quote:

Originally posted by snipes:

quote:

Originally posted by KSC02:

quote:

Originally posted by Foghorn Leghorn:
I actually try to stay away from 2nd day air.

At least with ground, the packages are most likely in a truck for most of their journey....not sitting in the sun at the airport.

Excellant advice.

Ground is always my first choice, for this very reason.

Really? Interesting stuff and until Foghorn stated it I never really gave it much thought. I assumed that second day air was always better than 7 day cross country trip. That's what ground from Cali is to me. Is this a common feeling among forumites?

No. Faster is better, no doubt. You can't account for the unknowables, e.g. weather, time of day of handling and loading, so the best you can do is reduce the exposure window by expediting shipping.

That, and package delivery trucks are never refrigerated.

The entire wine distribution system is fraught with peril, not to mention the vagaries of cork sealed wines.

I don't think that buying young wines from private sellers is any more risky in terms of cooking risk than it is buying from a retailer, unless that retailer is someone like Moore Brothers who guarantee temperature control throughout the entire shipping chain.

Anyway, we don't even know if the wines at issue are cooked; there was no flavor description at all by the threadstarter.

quote:

Originally posted by chaad:
That, and package delivery trucks are never refrigerated.

True, delivery trucks are not refrigerated. That's why you only arrange delivery during proper 'shipping windows' during the year (March,April,May)and (Sept.,Oct.,Nov.). Obviously keeping an eye of temp spikes during even these time periods. Is it perfect? No. No system ever is. But better than the almost guaranteed tarmac sitting.

Knock on wood, never a bad bottle yet.

quote:

Anyway, we don't even know if the wines at issue are cooked; there was no flavor description at all by the threadstarter.

Sorry - I did not think you would want a TNs on these bottles. I did not take TNs as the wines were undrinkable and went down the drain - but here is from memory:

All three of the opened bottles, two 2003 siduri wines and one 2004 Loring were very sweet - almost like a port. The nose was a funky smell (not a good funky) - but still there was an overarching sweet smell - like a rotten decayed sweet smell - with a very strong alcohol smell.

With the siduri, I decanted and let it sit an hour or two thinking it was the style of the wine (as I had never had these before). It was still terrible - same flavors. I would also describe it as flat, i.e. there was no underlying fruit or anything like that. Just this stink and sweet flavor with a lot of heat.

The loring 2004 rosellas - I have had before. Last time it needed a little bit of time in a decanter and it was excellent. Here is my TN from the first time I had the wine: Funky nose to start that blew off quickly. lots of red fruits - strawberry but cherry seemed to be the strongest. Nice little tarty edge. Hint of spicyness on the finish- kinda hot - but it works with the overall flavors.

I tasted no red fruit this time, the funky smell was different - more like a decaying smell - five times as strong and did not blow off - even overnight. I couldn't really taste any fruit because of the sweet rotten flavor. The alcohol was way out of balance and could clear your sinus's out.

You are right that I do not know what a cooked bottle of wine tastes like. The above is my best description of the wine. The only thing I can say is that I have had the Loring before and this one did not taste anything like that Loring or any other Loring I have ever had. All three bottles were undrinkable. I am going to open the other three this weekend and see if they also have the same nastyness.

quote:

Originally posted by thirsty man:
You are right that I do did not know what a cooked bottle of wine tastes like.

I believe you do now.

Thirstyman,

Yeah, those could certainly be cooked.