Astrales is made by the same family that makes San Roman. Dad made Unico for around 30 years. He knows how to make wine. So do his sons and nephew. But that wine is too oaky and young right now. it will be better. Alonso del Yerro is fine. It's very new so there's no way to know how it will age. And the 2003s are problematic - some of them seem to mature quickly. But I think Stephane Derenoncourt is their consulting winemaker and 2004 or 2005 would be good bets.

quote:

Originally posted by GregT:
Areas like Priorat I'd bet against, areas like Toro and Bierzo I'd take a chance on, and areas like Rioja and RdD I've already placed my money on.

You had me, GregT, until you posted that Priorat is not worth cellaring for the long term. Have you had aged Priorat or are you speaking from uninformed opinion?

Personally, I consider the majority of my Priorats, within my BLUE CHIP holdings, for the most part. Priorat offers some of Spain's greatest wines from some of its' greatest wine makers. Alvaro Palacios, just to name one of several.

RdD, I agree with, though you'll find some here who view it as a tired, outdated area but there are several producers creating fantastic wines there. And while many here love Rioja, for me, this is my least enjoyed appellation of those you mention.

Your Priorat is my Rioja.

GregT-
I suppose I feel compelled to say that I notice you seem to be a very passionate appreciator of wine. It's evident from your postings, that if you like something you'll study it intensely and become quite versed regarding it. However, in your passion of verbalizing that accumulated knowledge, you'll spew out an opinion that is, in fact, a big turd of complete B.S., and that ends up totally disqualifying the good information you're attempting to communicate. Just slow down a touch, before posting such firm opinions, as facts.
My 2 cents.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KSC02,

doesn't happen.

quote:

Originally posted by KSC02:
You had me, GregT, until you posted that Priorat is not worth cellaring for the long term. Have you had aged Priorat or are you speaking from uninformed opinion?

oh my another drift into whether Priorat will age or not.....

quote:

Originally posted by mareff:
oh my another drift into whether Priorat will age or not.....

The point of my post was intended, admittedly, to address my frustration with opinion passed off as fact.
I said what I said. I'm over it now.

quote:

Originally posted by KSC02:

quote:

Originally posted by mareff:
oh my another drift into whether Priorat will age or not.....

The point of my post was intended, admittedly, to address my frustration with opinion passed off as fact.
I said what I said. I'm over it now.

KSC, Greg did only say he would bet against their aging ability, not that it was fact. It is amusing to watch the Priorat hounds get their dander up when someone suggests this.

seriously! you'd think he said something bad about bordeaux...

and if i asked both of them what the oldest priorat each has personally tasted, i'd bet greg has 10 years on ksc. IF i asked...

quote:

Originally posted by steve8:
KSC, Greg did only say he would bet against their aging ability, not that it was fact. It is amusing to watch the Priorat hounds get their dander up when someone suggests this.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TBird,

KSCO2 - I really don't want to get into a Priorat issue on Mike's Bordeaux thread. Plus you seem like a decent guy - MI is my home state and Montreal is where I'd live if it were part of the US. Given your stated preferences, I'm sure you have lots of experience and have tasted through lots of Priorat wines, verticals, horizontals, randoms, etc.

Since you ask, sure, I've indeed done it many times so I promise you I'm not stating anyone else's opinion here. A few of us were actually surprised a few years ago when we began to realize that the Priorats weren't showing the development expected.

More interesting is discussing it with Spanish winemakers. There is great curiosity among them regarding this area and what is likely to happen with the wines and it's an issue people talk about. You mention Palacios. I have some of his Dofi and plan to drink it soon. At a recent vertical of l'Ermita everyone agreed that wines should be drunk sooner rather than later. The wines he's making in Bierzo seem like better bets. And for the price of l'Ermita, I'd go back to a top Bordeaux, which has a longer track record. Again, this was in a thread about buying wines to lay down.

Of course, I'm sure there are people with far more experience than I. From the posts I see on this board and the authority with which they're delivered, I'm sure that there are plenty of them on this board.

Nonetheless, for some reason or another I end up tasting a fair amount of wine in a given year. This past week, between Spain and Hungary it's been well north of 100 wines and it looks to be the same for the foreseeable future. Of course that slows down a lot during the summer, but out of several thousand wines a year, maybe 30% are Spanish, maybe more, I never really checked.

So I'll rephrase my assertion - out of the Priorat wines I myself have been tasting over the years since they started arriving on the US market, none have yet shown that they evolve and develop the complexity and interest evidenced by wines from other areas. It's why I said I'd bet against. And that's ONLY for long term development. And yes, I do realize that the producers have all been making modifications as they've been learning and it's almost impossible to predict what will happen with the wine made today if you base your call on the different wine made ten years ago.

But this is just my personal experience, not truth from on high. And it's in no way a call on the general quality of Priorat wines as a class. Interestingly, Tom Matthews is one of the few major critics to state that he's finding the same and I give him lots of credit for putting it in print because it is counter to what some other major critics claim.

Anyhow, it's a Bordeaux thread so I'll leave it at that. And if you ever head down into NYC, give a shout and we'll do some research. Cheers.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GregT,

I would not mind going into the Bordeaux versus Tempranillo aging ability drift.....hehehehe (throwing oil on the fire...)

quote:

Originally posted by GregT:
Anyhow, it's a Bordeaux thread so I'll leave it at that. And if you ever head down into NYC, give a shout and we'll do some research. Cheers.

GregT-

Fair enough. In retrospect I may have been a bit impetuous admittedly getting my shorts in a twist this morning unnecessarily. My apologies. No harm intended and your response was/is valid and your 'reassertion' appreciated.

I do look forward to raising a few glasses with you in the future.

Cheers.

So what is the question here? I'm getting involved late.

Does Priorat age?

quote:

Originally posted by wine+art:
So what is the question here? I'm getting involved late.

Does Priorat age?

That was a drift, not the main focus of the thread.

Clearly, it actually began as a question whether the 2005 vintage will become the recent generation of collecter's '82 equivalent.

But then, me thinks you already know that.