Interesting article I saw this morning. Seems the winemakers in Beaujolais have been caught chaptalizing their wines.

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What I find interesting is that the French aren't prosecuting the winemakers, but rather the individuals selling or transporting the sugar. Kind of like arresting the gun dealer and not the criminal that used the gun...

Also, I can't help but think that chaptalization is more prevelant than in just the Beaujolais region. Cali Cabs, for instance?

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... I can't help but think that chaptalization is more prevelant than in just the Beaujolais region. Cali Cabs, for instance?

Bite your tongue!

What would make you think that? Maybe the 'oak chip' wines and jugs, but I would bet money against the quality prducers doing any such thing. Think about it, even in lesser years the price remains the same, so what's the upside?

Maybe dilution to bring the alcohol levels down though....

Chaptalization is common in France and not illegal in it's own right. The amount one is allowed to Chaptalize is limited, and these winemakers seem to have been accused of going over the limit allowed.

It is illegal in California and entirely unnecessary. Our worries are about too much natural sugar in the grapes, not too little. I've heard rumors and hersay about almost any practice you can imagine, but I've never heard anyone think that anybody in California is adding sugar.

If I'm not mistaken, chaptalization is still legal in OR, though most wineries choose not to do it . . .

It's legal in a lot of states. I do hear of people doing it in the East a great deal, they are rather open about it on some of the email groups I belong too. Often they are adding sugar and then stopping fermentation to leave the wine sweet.

Yes, chaptalization is legal in OR, and it is used.
My guess is that some of the early picked grapes this year got a sugar boost.

In '06 WATER needed to be added!

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It is illegal in California and entirely unnecessary. Our worries are about too much natural sugar in the grapes, not too little. I've heard rumors and hersay about almost any practice you can imagine, but I've never heard anyone think that anybody in California is adding sugar.

Thanks, Paul! As a winemaker in CA, why is it that there's so much natural sugar in CA grapes? Is it the climate, grape varieties, improvements in technology, or a combination of all three?

I read an article last year about the increased use of Spinning Cones and other de-alcoholizing methods in California. I remember thinking you guys walk quite a tightrope: Often, you work your tails off to make wines that are as big, ripe, and fruity as possible (i.e. higher sugar contents and thus more alcohol), but if you go overboard you have to consider removing alcohol afterward (and thus some of the wine's flavor and intensity).

For a Cabernet, what is the optimum sugar level you shoot for? For a Syrah?

Festiva you might find it interesting to read some old WineSpectator blogs from Brian Loring. He touched upon several interesting topics like this one.

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Originally posted by Festiva:
...why is it that there's so much natural sugar in CA grapes? Is it the climate, grape varieties, improvements in technology, or a combination of all three?

We are blessed with a lot of sunshine... and very little rain. We can usually let the fruit hang as long as we'd like - so getting natural sugar leves high enough every year is pretty much a given.

The bigger issue in CA is acid. Since we are farther south than a lot of the European growing regions, we don't have as many daylight hours during the summer growing season. So often we have to let the fruit hang longer into the fall to get ripe fruit (NOTE - what "ripe" means to different winemakers is a very controversial subject... so let's avoid that discussion ) That means sugars go up... and acid levels go down. That's why it's legal to add acid to the wine in CA, but not sugar.

BTW... we did add sugar to all of the pinot we got in from Oregon this year - since the rain played havoc with getting fruit ripe. It's the first time we've had to do it - and I had to ask some Oregon pinot making buddies how much to add.

Fstiva----

We probably owe a lot to A.J Winkler and UC Davis. California has been mapped for decades into "Heat Summation Zones". There has never really been any planting in areas that can not get a grape to 22 Brix, and we've been able to match varieties to areas they will do best.

People push the boundries all the time. Into the Anderson Valley, the Sonoma Coast, everyone thought John Alban was insane for planting where he did, and I'm outside the right zone myself for Cabernet Sauvignon at Chaine d'Or. Truth is most of California is unsuitable for growing grapes. It's too hot or too cold, but we never had areas get established that needed to add sugar. If you couldn't get grapes ripe, you planted somewhere else.

It's a more complex issue than that of course. Technology has helped, vineyard practices, all contribute to getting grapes riper, but California is closer to Tuscany or Spain or Chateneuf du Pape in climate than Bordeaux or Burgundy in climate. IT's just always been warmer here and heat = sugar.

Brian's right, the bigger issue is really finding balance, whatever the winemaker thinks balance is. When is the sugar ripe, the flavors ripe, the tannins right, the acid sound. All those things have to come together. In California the one that usually gets out of balance on us is acid. In Bordeaux and Burgundy it's usually sugar.

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Originally posted by Stefania Wine:
In California the one that usually gets out of balance on us is acid.

Anyone know if it's legal to add acid everywhere? I know that CA winemakers do it frequently.
I guess the French most likely wouldn't need to (except maybe in Sauternes?)

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Originally posted by Dave Tong BBP:

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Originally posted by Stefania Wine:
In California the one that usually gets out of balance on us is acid.

Anyone know if it's legal to add acid everywhere? I know that CA winemakers do it frequently.
I guess the French most likely wouldn't need to (except maybe in Sauternes?)

Adding sugar and/or acid are both legal in washington.

Interesting discussion! Thanks for the insight. I never really stopped to think about what a winemaker can or can't add to a wine.

This may be a dumb question, but what kind of acid would you add to counter-balance sweetness?

the most common additive is tartaric acid, as that is the strongest acid, found primarily in grapes. Some malic is also used, but you have to consider malolactic fermentation when using it.

Festiva, it's not really to counter sweetness.

Wine needs to have a certain pH to remain stable, usually below 4.0 The higher the pH the more sulfur you need to add to protect the wine from spoilage.

Acidity also provides 'freshness' or 'lift' or 'refreshing' to wine. It keeps a wine from being cloying or thick or tiring. Most of the wines people complain about around here - Oaky Chards, Aussie fruit bombs, high alcohol California wines, are high pH - low acid wines. They drink more like a cocktail than a traditional wine you'd have with dinner.

I have had 1 or 2 wines I choose to add acid to every year. The Eaglepoint Syrah usually comes in with a sound pH of 3.6-3.7, but a low Maloactic count, so after Maloactic fermentation the pH climbes. I've ended up adding acid to that each year.

Last year I had a similiar situation with Cabernet Sauvignon from Harvest Moon. This year I had two bins of Harvest Moon I added acid too, and two I did not. It's a choice I make after getting back the initial lab results.

Nothing I've ever made would have been grossly out of whack if it hadn't had acid added, but my personal preference/house style is for a wine with good acidity that can go well with food. So, when needed, I make the addition to keep that style. I'd actually rather add the acid than the sulfur and it kind of is one or the other.

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but my personal preference/house style is for a wine with good acidity that can go well with food.

That explains why I like your wines! They're excellent dinner companions!

I really appreciate all of this feedback. It helps me understand all this a little better!

This has also been an education for me. Thanks, Paul and Brian.

PH

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Originally posted by tpb:

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Originally posted by Dave Tong BBP:

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Originally posted by Stefania Wine:
In California the one that usually gets out of balance on us is acid.

Anyone know if it's legal to add acid everywhere? I know that CA winemakers do it frequently.
I guess the French most likely wouldn't need to (except maybe in Sauternes?)

Adding sugar and/or acid are both legal in washington.

Anything goes in Australia.

Mr. Loring and Mr. Romero as well as others on these boards, are you implying that what a winemaker does impacts the expression of terroir in a wine? The major issue with many of the Aussies and many other International wineries is that their grapes are picked with really high sugars. Is the expression of terroir affectd by brix at harvest? Is it impacted by the adjustment of acid?

It sounds as if you may have inadvertantly implied that the expression of terroir is in the palate of the beholder or the vision of the winemaker and that there may not be an objective "sense of place" a site can express that is not somehow diminished or negated by human interaction.

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Originally posted by cdr:
Mr. Loring and Mr. Romero as well as others on these boards, are you implying that what a winemaker does impacts the expression of terroir in a wine? The major issue with many of the Aussies and many other International wineries is that their grapes are picked with really high sugars. Is the expression of terroir affectd by brix at harvest? Is it impacted by the adjustment of acid?

It sounds as if you may have inadvertantly implied that the expression of terroir is in the palate of the beholder or the vision of the winemaker and that there may not be an objective "sense of place" a site can express that is not somehow diminished or negated by human interaction.

Back in the saddle again!

Wow...A thread I actually learned something from... Sweet... ( I thought Chaptalization was limited to a few desperate Beaujolais makers.)

May be able to sell tickets to this one. Although I don't know you, welcome back cdr.

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Originally posted by cdr:
Mr. Loring and Mr. Romero as well as others on these boards, are you implying that what a winemaker does impacts the expression of terroir in a wine?

Of course!

Just as all the decisions the grower made when "designing" the vineyard impacted terroir... such as what varietal to plant, what clone, what rootstock, how many vines per acre, row orientation, trellising, irrigation or not, etc.

Just as all the decisions the grower makes when farming the vineyard impact terroir... such as pruning, canopy management, amount of irrigation (and when), fruit dropping, etc.

Can a winemaker impact terroir? Possibly. Picking too early or picking too late could affect taste probably more than anything. The problem is defining those parameters - since no one seems to agree. New oak can definitely affect taste.

But once the decisions have been made... and the resulting wines are tasted over many years... you do get a sense of place. And it will become the terroir of the site. Since there are often no "control" samples, you really don't know if that's the "true" terroir or not. Given that there is so much human intervention necessary, I'd argue there is no truth that would ever be found. Granted, in the case where multiple winemakers make wine from the same site, you can see differences due to their parameters - but which one is "right"?. The one thing that usually shines through is quality. And that may be the truest form of terroir there is.

Mr. Loring,

A well stated, honest post.

Thank You.

Haven't checked this board for a little while so I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but in your concern for terroir, remember that in the one single area where terroir is most ballyhooed and the wines are among the priciest, i.e. Burgundy, it is legal to chaptelize. It's one reason I get impatient with Burgundy drinkers who rhapsodize about the great vineyards and their "sense of place".

Not to mention everything that Brian mentioned, although the French laws are more interventionist, which may mitigate a few variables.