quote:

Originally posted by Pauly:
The wines they make are basically fault free with big bags of fruit, but if the people they are selling to want that where is the harm?

First of all, don't speak for the people who buy and drink YT - they don't know what they want, and only buy YT because it's cheap and does not burn their tongues.

And second, what about art, Pauly? Do you think art should be made unfussy enough so "simple" people can understand it and maybe get into it a bit more? Well, following your logic, if we can get more people interested in art by simplifying it, it's only better for the Art itself, isn't it? Just think how much of that trouble-free art we can have to go around. It will be all over, on every stinking shelf and everyone will like it too. We can then have Museums of Simplified Arts on every street in every town. Good for the people, good for the Art. Of course, all that complicated fluff will have to go. We don't want to offend anyone by something that might appear complicated or god forbid exhibit a nuance or two.

Blech....

Goodness. I don't know, but Yellow Tail makes me think of a little food analogy. Have you heard of a company named "Wendy's"? I don't think anyone has ever confused them with gourmet anything. They do make a lot of money though. People who drink YT DO know what they want. They want a tasty glass of wine that costs less than $8 a bottle and is easy to find. Is that a bad thing? Everyone has their own tastes and thresholds of monetary acceptance. I would like to be drinking an $80 bottle of Elderton Command, but I'm very happy with a $24 bottle of Barossa. You shouldn't talk bad of those people that choose something not of your own taste. When those people say what they think of you, you may not be happy.

. When those people say what they think of you, you may not be happy.[/QUOTE]

Oh and Im sure they do talk too...winesnobs are big time firepower for many demographics

Perhaps I should expand on my comment and respond to some:

Pauly... not sure (w/ your first post) if you are echoing me or if you disagree w/ me... I think we're both saying the same thing. Yellow Tail is crap, but they are good businessmen (like Walmart... I hate their cheap crap and their stupid stores everywhere, but the capitalist in me admires a lot of their success... other practices by them are just plain obnoxious on the other hand).

CDR,

Not being sarcastic when I say this, but I am one of those who do not care if America is a wine drinking nation. I don't think they (YT) will make America a "wine drinking" nation... my definition of a wine drinking nation would be one that appreciates every aspect of it, pursues quality wine (not necessarily high priced wine), and does not "party" with it or pretend to be "sophisticated" while they get drunk like a bunch of hillbillies (how most of the new American "wine drinking crowd" acts now).

As for your opinion of YT, I think we greatly differ in your point of it being a "quality" wine (I think it is cough syrup). I think their price point is fine... but I can find tons of CdRs for a similar price that are 100x better... heck, even Aussie Shiraz, there are a ton at low price points. If they put a weird name on it to sell... fine, no biggie with that. I think it is dorky, but so is "The Laughing Magpie" (an excellent wine). I guess I am referring to Americans' love of sloppiness. I appreciate people dressing nicely to go somewhere (like a nicer restaurant) or a nice mall, wedding, etc. I think it is a respect thing and just more, civil (yes, that sounds weird, but I like it). There are plenty of times and places for casual clothes, looking like a slob, being lazy and so on. But not all the time. People always throw in the "it costs too much for nice clothes" argument... whatever!!! Sale rack is the key word... overstock.com, etc. Lame excuse. Now don't take me the wrong way and think that everybody should be wearing an Armani suit w/ their Hermes tie 24/7... that's exaggeration. It's just a formality... that's all.

Same with Walmart and all of the same lousy chain restaurants... if they produced high quality products and "kept after themselves" a bit, then we'd have a different story. Walmart's products, on the whole, are absolute crap! That's what I mean when I refer to cheapening. I can see people's aversion to pretentiousness and exclusivity... no problem with that... they just seem to go to the exact opposite end now... "Unscrew it, let's do it!!" (what a loser).

It would be a different story if we had a couple of companies selling 8 million cases of quality wine to counterbalance the astronomical price increases for fine wine, but it's not the case. You have jug wine trying to counterbalance cult wine. The middle is disappearing.

Like I said above, more power to Yellow Tail and Bronco for cashing in on all of the cheap drunks in this country.

I agree with you on the sommeliers in Kramer's article. I also agree with his assessment of sacrificing appreciation (not pretentiousness) for "Unscrew it, let's do it!" and dump the swill all over your face.

I know a lot of people will disagree with me on the formality issues... but I hope that explains it a little better. It's not about snobbery or exclusivity.

I also don't think Yellow Tail intiates future winos as much as a lot of you do. I would say it is a very LOW percentage... and most the time it is maybe an upgrade to Toasted Head, or the opposite, a "Silver Oak" person, who will pay thru the nose for WS Top 100 wines because they were brought into the hobby by image, not appreciation of quality (back to the "Look, I'm sophisticated because I'm drinking wine" mentality).

I know there are several economic factors with this... but Yellow Tail's main attraction, along with Two Buck, is that it is cheap. The cheap crowd will NEVER convert to more expensive wine... I would bet that 90% of the people that drink Yellow Tail don't even like it... they drink it to get drunk and because it is cheap.

You all have interesting points... I think it is easy to argue both sides (YT good for wine industry, bad for wine industry).

Anyways... Brian... thanks for the broadcasts.

LJ

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LiquidJoy65,

quote:

Originally posted by coolbronson:
And second, what about art, Pauly? Do you think art should be made unfussy enough so "simple" people can understand it and maybe get into it a bit more? Well, following your logic, if we can get more people interested in art by simplifying it, it's only better for the Art itself, isn't it?

There's plenty of room in the Art world for Norman Rockwell, Albert Namitijirra, Jackson Pollock and Michelangelo. Just because someone prefers one artist to another doesn't mean that there isn't room for all of them.

I'm not advocating for people who don't like YT to drink it, I'm saying that if someone likes YT then good for them. It doesn't affect my buying patterns in the slightest.

Whilst the Australian wine industry has been expanding exponentially over the last 20 years or so the number of labels available has expanded massively and the quality wines available has increased the most out of all the products. I think your fears of a YT lead dumbing down of wines available to Americans are unfounded and contraindicated by actual experience in countries with similar cultures.

_________________________________________________________________________
Very touching story.
So, what kind of wines do you drink now, mharris335? Can you tell us where your palate's preferences lie today?
__________________________________________________________________________


Well my story is not that touching but since you asked. I am loving all type of wine (Reds the most) I try to stay under $30 a bottle, with a rating of 88pts or higher. Love to find the big wine for my buck. It's become a hobby now! I live in Oregon and love wine tasting as due my friends. I owe it all to YT. I do have friends that still buy YT because of budgets and lack of funds. They still like it....granted they like my wines more but can't afford it. This is not a bad thing....just the way things are. For you to say they don't know what they want is really narrow minded on your part. They know what they want but can't afford it. That is a big difference you fail to realize.

Coolbronson

1. As Pauly pointed out - in two countries of similar outlook (Aust and NZ) the advent of cheap wine DID (repeat did) have the effects stated. This is undeniable. This experience has been replicated in the UK. Three strikes - no walks.

2. Whether people who wish to drink at this level continue to do so - frankly, irrelevant; however, if experience here is to go by, they do slowly upgrade (if they can afford it). More often, they buy a special bottle for old Aunt Myrtle's birthday ... a $20 ... and so it goes on.

Wine is still a luxury item - but one that is now seen as "normal" by almost all levels of our society up this way. Being a luxury it is not price flexible so of course, if you earn $11.00 an hour you perhaps don't by many wines greater than that.

Yellow tail and many others are potable - the vin ordinaire and even the vin du pays of France, Italy and Spain (in the 60s and 70s), were definitely NOT potable. It is a noted point that even in France these wines are in decline (distilled into industrial alcohol), but that the better wines are in increasing demand.

It takes time, but why should the USA be greatly different to all these other countries' experience? I was extrapolating from that point, not making it a point of contention, however I shall watch with interest over the next 20 years to see which of us has been vindicated.