So I love his wine. I popped and poured a bottle of Poetry last night that was one of the smoothest Cabs I have had in a while. My question is this:
Like many of us here, I like to speak to the tasting room pourers and winemakers - mostly to see if there are small boutiques that I am missing or that are on the rise. The last two times I have been out there, I have noticed a somewhat relentless disdain for Cliff Lede. Does anyone know the story behind this? Has he just been stepping on toes out there? I'd be interested to learn.
IMO, anytime someone comes into an industry with $$$, there is a perception that they haven't "earned" or "proven" themselves by "paying their dues." Cliff made a ton of money in Canada and has bought up some terrific real estate, hired the "top gun" (D. Abreu) to manage his vineyards, hired an ex-Colgin Asst. Wine-maker, and is generating a lot of press for his wines. That's a great recipe for jealousy, as NY Retailer points out.
Been to Cliff Lede but I am not all that impressed! To me the atmosphere is a bit stale and streamlined. Your typical out of towner with loads of cash, gonna build a dream winery. Sure I can understand the neighbors disdain.
With regard to quality, I really can't say anything negative as the wines are solid. But so are the wines of many of their neighbors, and make no mistake Cliff Lede does not stand out against the top quality producers of Stags Leap and Yountville.
Of course I can totally see the white haired chap in a diamond sweater with a women half his age entering the compound and leaving with a Lede club membership.
Originally posted by cab chris: Been to Cliff Lede but I am not all that impressed! To me the atmosphere is a bit stale and streamlined. Your typical out of towner with loads of cash, gonna build a dream winery. Sure I can understand the neighbors disdain.
With regard to quality, I really can't say anything negative as the wines are solid. But so are the wines of many of their neighbors, and make no mistake Cliff Lede does not stand out against the top quality producers of Stags Leap and Yountville.
Of course I can totally see the white haired chap in a diamond sweater with a women half his age entering the compound and leaving with a Lede club membership.
It's always nice when several people post their answers then someone comes along and confirms it.
Originally posted by cab chris: Been to Cliff Lede but I am not all that impressed! To me the atmosphere is a bit stale and streamlined. Your typical out of towner with loads of cash, gonna build a dream winery. Sure I can understand the neighbors disdain.
With regard to quality, I really can't say anything negative as the wines are solid. But so are the wines of many of their neighbors, and make no mistake Cliff Lede does not stand out against the top quality producers of Stags Leap and Yountville.
Of course I can totally see the white haired chap in a diamond sweater with a women half his age entering the compound and leaving with a Lede club membership.
It's always nice when several people post their answers then someone comes along and confirms it.
Posts: 1230 | Location: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 19, 2008
I really like Cliff Lede. I have tried some of his wines; they are very good. They are great, right off of the shelf. I don't have any in my cellar. Why keep them, they are very good right now. May get better, may not. Different from 2005 French wines, those do need time to relax. They will only go up in quality over time.
Posts: 903 | Location: SLC,UT | Registered: Jan 03, 2005
That's odd. Mr. Lede is pretty well-liked by most AFAIK. He is not a brash person, but is actually pretty introverted. I could name a lot of people around here held in much, much more disdain.
I think his staff is making very good wines virtually across the board, too. Many ITB feel the same, and those wines are often included in benchmark tastings around the valley.
Where were you that pourers & WM's were voicing such opinions? To consumers, no less?
Posts: 205 | Location: Napa | Registered: Oct 14, 2004
We opened a 2002 Cliff Lede Saturday to go with grilled NY strip. It was a big hit, more elegant than overpowering, perfectly balanced. It fell about half way between Bordeaux inspired versions and the plush, over-ripe score chasers.
Bigfoot is right and has described the vibe in Napa pretty well. There is a certain resentment - not even a resentment of, but a snootiness towards - of people who come crashing into the business with a boatload of dough with no wine business pedigree. I remember people bad mouthing Jarvis before they produced their first bottle of wine. In time, these nouveau types graduate into the mainstream and a new new guy comes to badmouth. I suspect Cliff represents the latest crop of new money that the establishment loves to hate. This is all very funny given that large numbers of Napa wineries over the years came about and are sustained by piles of money made elsewhere.
That's the impression I was getting - that he was a newcomer, an outsider and, consequently, was just the new kid on the block.
In terms of where I heard this stuff - from the Inn where we stayed, at some wineries like Seq. Grove, Eliz. Spencer and others.
I like his reds - opened one of his cabs and was pleased at its elegance. Not earth shattering but complemented a Cab/Balsamic Reduction Skirt Steak very nicely.
The stuff is OK, it's cookie-cutter Napa cabernet (Haven't tried the $100 "Poetry"). I opened a Claret recently; it did the job but not much else. There's better wine available for the money, as well as much, much worse.
I still have a 99 SAV Merlot that I'm keeping for the right occasion.
http://scmwine.info
Posts: 6602 | Location: Santa Clara Valley AVA | Registered: Jul 02, 2004
I think Cliff Lede is much better than "OK". I had an 01 a little while back that was terrific. Their SVD wines are quite interesting as well. I've had the 05 a couple of times and, unlike some others here, I clearly believe it needs more time as it is fairly extracted. I think it's a great wine for under $50 if you like the style.
Dave, have you had the regular cab? You obviously didn't care for the claret as you were the lowest score out of 35 notes on CT.
Erin - the only places I've found CL in FL is B-21 and Leon's in Miami.
"Wine is bottled poetry." - Robert Louis Stevenson
When I visited I picked up the 05 Claret and 04 Stagecoach (and a superb 1997 Diva). I haven't opened the Stagecoach yet. Not sure what happened to the Claret; obviously it was better at the winery.
Granted I've only visited Cliff Lede once (plus SAV at least twice) so maybe it's a little unfair of me to dismiss them (but that never stopped any of us before).
Vinole: IIRC the Anderson family sold in 2002, so the 01 that you drank was at least in part made by the previous winemaker.
http://scmwine.info
Posts: 6602 | Location: Santa Clara Valley AVA | Registered: Jul 02, 2004
I had the 05 Cliff Lede Poetry last month at a tasting. The wine was a massive wine with huge tannins. It was not even close to being approachable. The color and tannin structure of it could have easily been thought of as a Petite Syrah. Cliff Lede himself was there and he did comment that it will last 30 years and its still a few years away from its drinking window.
Posts: 1270 | Location: New York | Registered: Apr 17, 2003
DnVsMom and I have tasted there a decent number of times, and always been pleased.
Back in September, a large group of us tasted at the winery. DnVsMom had set it up in advance. We were treated great, and many in the group bought a lot of wine. I think the wines are solid. The SVD's that we tried were very good. It was where I also had my biggest wine score of last year. Half off all of their sparklers (S. Anderson), so I got some screaming deals.
The only place I have heard them bad-mouthed is Cosentino. Mitch Cosentino made no bones about denouncing Lede, because he feels that the "Poetry" name infringes on Cosentino's "The Poet".
Romeo and Juliet are together in eternity....
Posts: 6183 | Location: Elk Grove, CA, USA | Registered: Dec 06, 2003
I have been pleased with the Lede wines, especially at their respective price points.
Several of you are right though, Napa does not like interlopers. Craig and Kathryn Hall and the Palmaz family (both of which have beaucoup bucks) had a hard time cracking the old boy's club...maybe they haven't done so yet. As for me, a little new blood, new ideas can be a good thing. Shaking up the status quo might just raise the overall level.
Posts: 443 | Location: Plano, TX | Registered: Mar 01, 2008
Originally posted by Dom'n'Vin'sDad: The only place I have heard them bad-mouthed is Cosentino. Mitch Cosentino made no bones about denouncing Lede, because he feels that the "Poetry" name infringes on Cosentino's "The Poet".
