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quote: Originally posted by spo: Dead Horse. Let us talk about these in 15-20 years when we are drinking them. All kinds of dummies get caught up in buying for the sake of buying. I even remember seeing people wanting to sell their 2000s they had been holding onto so they could buy 2005s.  
A good point, Spo. There are certainly some short term gains to be made in bordeaux, but you have to be pretty good and pretty lucky to capitalize. This game all depends on your age. If you're young, you may as well buy from 2005 if you have the money. If you're old, there's no point, previous vintages are available at the same or lower prices.
*******
Not looking good for next year either.
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| Posts: 4553 | Location: Chicago | Registered: May 24, 2002 | |
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quote: A more interesting discussion would be selling the 2007 vintage at those new high prices.
Payback is hell. I hope the powers that be in Bordeaux don't expect a lot of sympathy if the 2007 vintage turns out to be a real crapper. |
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| Posts: 1418 | Location: Geneva, IL. | Registered: Oct 25, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by James Suckling:
I am in here Bordeaux tasting 1,000 2005 Bordeaux from bottle. There are some fabulous wines. Just curious if you bought some. And, if so, what?
Here is what I know I got: Leoville Barton Clos de Sarpe Chateau Montrose Bellefont Belcier Larcis Ducasse Lascombes La Tour Carnet Prieure-Lichine Du Tertre I got some good wines for the money, and did pretty good with some long term aging wines in the Barton, Sarpe and Montrose. I decided to go with these. I could have gotten a few 1st growths but then I could not have afforded all the above I got. I am happy with what I got and even happier stayed away from the high priced 1st Growths. Too many other outstanding Bordeaux at much more reasonable prices.
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Boycott big government, buy a Ford.
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On futures I picked up a 3 pack of the following: Leoville Poyferre La Fleur-Petrus Pontet-Canet Malescot Rol Valentin Smith Haut Lafitte Talbot My goal was to pick one quality producer from as many regions as I could. I have also picked up the following that have already hit my local wine shop: Lanessan Fleur Cardinale Haut-Bages Liberal Bellevue Boyd-Cantenac de la Dauphine Bellefont-Belcier I just started getting serious about building a collection last year. Between my 2001 Brunello’s and my 2005 Bordeaux I’d say I’m off to a good start.  |
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| Posts: 2190 | Location: OC, CA (Currently in London) | Registered: Aug 01, 2007 | |
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James, I went large on '05s All in about 50 cases at an average price of around $100/btl. Only one First - Margaux, but 3 cases. After that I bought hardest in St. Emilion GC buying, Angelus, Troplong, Canon La-Gaf, Beausejour, Pavie-Maquin, Roteboeuf, l'Oratiore, Fleur Cardinale - 1 cs ea. total 12 cs Margaux next Ch. Margaux (only First but a lot), then Plamer, Kirwan, Lascombes, Boyd and Brane Cantec and Malescot maybe 8 cs total St Julien - all the Leovilles, Branaire, Ducru Beaucaillou - 5 cs Pessac - Haut Bailley, Smith H. Lafite, Pape Clement, Malartic, Bergey, and Chevalier rouge - say 5 cs. Paullic - Pontet Canet, H. Bage Liberal, D'Armailhac - 4 cs Pomerol - Vieux Certan, Le Gay, La Croix St Georges, le L'Eglise, L'Evangile 4 cs St. Estephe - Montrose, Calon-Segur, and Fronsac, Cotes de Castillion, Sauterne, Haut-Medoc for near term drinking. I am relatively new at collecting, and spent dozens of hours researching Bdx with the intent to lay in 2005 as the "cornerstone" of my burgeoning cellar. From what I read, this is the vintage to do that with. I make my choices from the few Bordeauxs I have tasted in the past plus an "Average of the Experts". I look at the top ten critics and compile ratings weighting for price and my style (I give you, Tanzer, and RP)more weight than JR, Bettame, Spurrier, Broadbent, etc.. When you put all of these palates together I think the ratings are meaningful for someone like me who does not have a lot of expereince with Bordeaux. BTW James, Ch. Margaux is the "capo dei capi" for '05 from the experts. A few others that are universally liked (as Pavie for instance is not)are Barton, Pontet Canet, Vieux Ch. Certan, Haut Bailley, and Pavie Macquin. These wines have very high consensus ratings with reasonable prices (for '05 anyway). Thank you so much for what you do. It would be impossible for someone like me to gain as much knowledge about great wine so quickly without people like you. And for all the complaints about scoring points vs just tasting notes, I just ask this question "Whe choosing a wine reviewed by Parker is "monumental" better or worse than "legendary"?". Doesn't asking "Is 100 more or less than 99?" make more sense?
Of Love and Wine: Always to spark the flame, but never to douse the fire
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| Posts: 177 | Location: The OC | Registered: Aug 23, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by MorBorDo:
James,
I went large on '05s All in about 50 cases at an average price of around $100/btl. Only one First - Margaux, but 3 cases. After that I bought hardest in St. Emilion GC buying, Angelus, Troplong, Canon La-Gaf, Beausejour, Pavie-Maquin, Roteboeuf, l'Oratiore, Fleur Cardinale - 1 cs ea. total 12 cs
Margaux next Ch. Margaux (only First but a lot), then Plamer, Kirwan, Lascombes, Boyd and Brane Cantec and Malescot maybe 8 cs total
St Julien - all the Leovilles, Branaire, Ducru Beaucaillou - 5 cs
Pessac - Haut Bailley, Smith H. Lafite, Pape Clement, Malartic, Bergey, and Chevalier rouge - say 5 cs.
Paullic - Pontet Canet, H. Bage Liberal, D'Armailhac - 4 cs
Pomerol - Vieux Certan, Le Gay, La Croix St Georges, le L'Eglise, L'Evangile 4 cs
St. Estephe - Montrose, Calon-Segur,
and Fronsac, Cotes de Castillion, Sauterne, Haut-Medoc for near term drinking.
I am relatively new at collecting, and spent dozens of hours researching Bdx with the intent to lay in 2005 as the "cornerstone" of my burgeoning cellar. From what I read, this is the vintage to do that with. I make my choices from the few Bordeauxs I have tasted in the past plus an "Average of the Experts". I look at the top ten critics and compile ratings weighting for price and my style (I give you, Tanzer, and RP)more weight than JR, Bettame, Spurrier, Broadbent, etc.. When you put all of these palates together I think the ratings are meaningful for someone like me who does not have a lot of expereince with Bordeaux. BTW James, Ch. Margaux is the "capo dei capi" for '05 from the experts. A few others that are universally liked (as Pavie for instance is not)are Barton, Pontet Canet, Vieux Ch. Certan, Haut Bailley, and Pavie Macquin. These wines have very high consensus ratings with reasonable prices (for '05 anyway). Thank you so much for what you do. It would be impossible for someone like me to gain as much knowledge about great wine so quickly without people like you. And for all the complaints about scoring points vs just tasting notes, I just ask this question "Whe choosing a wine reviewed by Parker is "monumental" better or worse than "legendary"?". Doesn't asking "Is 100 more or less than 99?" make more sense?
Will you adopt me in 25 years?
Hey is for Horses.
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| Posts: 1259 | Location: Edmonton | Registered: Feb 06, 2007 | |
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2005 being our wedding year we bought a bit and at all levels: Château Bellevue Mondotte La Mondotte Château Pavie Château Destieux Château Lascombes Château Malescot St. Exupery Reignac James, your blogs have re excited me about these purchases. Thanks, I can't wait to read the Mag! BTW, anyone in the SF area, the UGC, in association with KL Wines, is holding a tasting of over 80 2005 vintage wines in January
"Allocating wines is not rocket science. I mean, any dipsh-t can figure out rocket science." Dan Kosta
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| Posts: 232 | Location: Near Napa, Ca | Registered: Nov 20, 2006 | |
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I bought very few 05 futures, mainly because of the insane pricing. The smattering that I bought includes a few bottles each of: Clos du Marquis Pavie Maquin Malescot St. Exupery I wont be buying any first growths. I likley won't be able to justify the price of any second growths. I will be looking for some QPR wines to buy. On the plus side, one of my local wine stores has multiple 1995 second growths available priced at or below current auction index values. I would just assume stock up on those, all things being equal.
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"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the wine I drink I feel shame. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the vineyards and all of their hopes and dreams . If I didn't drink this wine, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, 'It is better that I drink this wine and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
- Jack Handy
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| Posts: 1106 | Location: San Diego | Registered: Jan 17, 2006 | |
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Hey Red guy, Agreed on the first and second growth mentality... I opted for the lesser named chateaus: Aleseme Becker Reignac, Pipeau Kirwan Do you mind telling which store you found those 95s at? Hey you should try to make our next offline.. As of now it is at SDWineaux's chateau... can't beat the corkage.. Last month's lineup was stellar... Cheers..  |
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| Posts: 454 | Location: San Diego | Registered: Apr 12, 2007 | |
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quote: Originally posted by khmark7:
50x12x100 = $60,000. That's hard to believe.
There's oil in thar hills.... Edmonton and Calgary have been experiencing a prolongued boom due to natural resources. I was there one week when the local police force commented that one of their biggest evening problems is the sheer number of ferraris that go racing in the rural roads at night. They don't have anything they can use to catch up....... |
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| Posts: 197 | Location: MA, USA | Registered: Nov 03, 2006 | |
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monbousquet
ducru beaucaillou
pape clement
angelus
lynch bages
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quote: Originally posted by Whine-oh: Hey Red guy, Agreed on the first and second growth mentality... I opted for the lesser named chateaus: Aleseme Becker Reignac, Pipeau Kirwan Do you mind telling which store you found those 95s at? Hey you should try to make our next offline.. As of now it is at SDWineaux's chateau... can't beat the corkage.. Last month's lineup was stellar... Cheers..
I would love to go but I will be in South Carolina for the holidays. The golf at Mt. Woodson followed by an off-line sounds awesome. The store I am referring to is on Miramar Rd, where you might find a limited selection of vintage wines. 
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"Sometimes when I reflect back on all the wine I drink I feel shame. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the vineyards and all of their hopes and dreams . If I didn't drink this wine, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself, 'It is better that I drink this wine and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver."
- Jack Handy
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| Posts: 1106 | Location: San Diego | Registered: Jan 17, 2006 | |
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James, I look forward to your bottle tasting reports. For me, I bought very heavy in 2005. I was 40 at the time a view it as an investment in my wife and my future enjoyment as with all past futures purchases. I look very closely at your tasting notes, thank you! Most bought in half or full cases. I bought the following, but will be looking for some $20-$30 winners. Margaux B21 Malescot Saint Exupery PC Malescot Saint Exupery 1.5 ABC Giscours St. Emillion ABC Pavie Macquin B21 Rol Valentin ABC Clos de L'Oratoire ABC Fleur-Cardinale St. Julien ABC Leoville Barton ABC Branaire Ducru PC Leoville Poyferre 3L PC Leoville Poyferre 6L Graves ABC Smith Haut Lafite Rouge ABC La Mission-Haut Brion ABC La Mission-Haut Brion 1.5 St. Estephe ABC Calon Segur Pauillac ABC Pontet Canet B21 Haut Bages Liberal Medoc B21 Episode 1 M. Rolland Pessac leognan B21 Haut Bergy
You are a savvy Bordeaux buyer indeed!! - James Suckling
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| Posts: 363 | Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL | Registered: Aug 13, 2002 | |
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I bought 4 bottles of each of the following on the first futures offering (I am splitting whole cases with 2 friends): Margaux Leoville Barton Pontet Canet Kirwan Episode I -- M. Rolland
"My only regret in life is that I did not drink more Champagne" - John Maynard Keynes
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| Posts: 158 | Location: Texas | Registered: Sep 23, 2004 | |
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Senior Editor
Wine Spectator
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I am not so sure you are going to have to wait 20 or 30 years on these wines. The top wines have a lovely balance to them, despite their powerful concentration of fruit and tannins. My drinking windows are saying eight to 10 years. But, obviously, they will improve for decades. The problem is there are so many outstanding wines. How do you make a choice?
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quote: Originally posted by James Suckling:
I am not so sure you are going to have to wait 20 or 30 years on these wines. The top wines have a lovely balance to them, despite their powerful concentration of fruit and tannins. My drinking windows are saying eight to 10 years. But, obviously, they will improve for decades. The problem is there are so many outstanding wines. How do you make a choice?
James the way I made my choices were by doing my homework. The wines I bought were chosen for the most part by.....1-similar across the board scores by most critics and 2-price.....I figured the combined should make for some very good QPR wines. Only a very few were chosen due to perennial favorites.
Live, love and eat
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| Posts: 250 | Location: Tampa, Fl | Registered: Apr 13, 2007 | |
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