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quote: Originally posted by Foghorn: quote: Originally posted by dr.darkrichandbold:
Now...if you find a wine worthy of 91 pts. for $12.99....I'm all ears.
Ba'humbug. The world is full of 91 point wines. I want a 98 pointer that costs $10.
The closest that you'll find is the Schild Shiraz :-) |
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| Posts: 1400 | Location: Jersey City | Registered: Feb 22, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by sprnplr: quote: Originally posted by Foghorn: quote: Originally posted by dr.darkrichandbold:
Now...if you find a wine worthy of 91 pts. for $12.99....I'm all ears.
Ba'humbug. The world is full of 91 point wines. I want a 98 pointer that costs $10.
The closest that you'll find is the Schild Shiraz :-)
OK....lets not take a trip into Ausiland now 
Live, love and eat
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| Posts: 250 | Location: Tampa, Fl | Registered: Apr 13, 2007 | |
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quote: Originally posted by GlennK: quote: Originally posted by WEc: quote: Originally posted by dr.darkrichandbold:
I just don't see any real Bordeaux enthusiast getting excited about that. Wine afficionados love anything 90 pts. or over and under $30. I've had conversations with retailers that say any score in the 80's, regardless of price has wine geeks looking elswhere. With the amount of good wine out there, even at prices like you've mentioned above, people want at least 89-90 pt. wines. At 85, 86 pts., I think most people would rather spend the same amount or another $3-5 and get a 91 pt. Aussie, or Chilean, or Spanish wine.
I completely agree. I would think for anyone who posts on these forums, 85 points is a bare minimum for any money spent on a bottle. That said, I also don't have much use for the "Smart buy" section of the reviews which is, of course, the angle JS is coming from. But even in comparison, 2001 Malmaison was 88 points and can be had for 12.99. This, in my books, makes the 2005 Z Bordeaux expensive, if I may. My concern is that this is true for the 2005 vintage across the board. So expensive may not necessarily mean absolute terms (of course if we're dealing with first growths this is true) but by relative terms.
I think the point chasing is more for the non-wine aficionados who don’t know the difference between an Aussie, Spanish or French wine. They just see a sticker on the shelf that says WS 91 pts!!! I think for most on this board you pick the style of the wine first, then the combination of the notes and the points. For example I would take that 86pt Z for $12 over a 91pt Aussie for the same price or even less because that is the style of wine that I like. And I think most forget that 86pts means the wine is very good!!!
Out of curiosity, how many sub 85 point wines have you drank in the last year?
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An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools. - Hemingway
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| Posts: 1385 | Location: Ontario | Registered: Jul 23, 2007 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Brashley:
I agree James, there are plenty of quality 80+ pointers out there that are well worth buying trying.
I think this may be the source of confusion for me, and perhaps others. But when I think of buying, I think of going in by a half-case minimum, not singles. So would I go a half case on a wine I think is about mid 80s for sub $15? No way, there are too many of those out there to try.
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An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools. - Hemingway
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| Posts: 1385 | Location: Ontario | Registered: Jul 23, 2007 | |
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Senior Editor
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I had one last weekend with my mother. I don't even remember the name but it was a St. Michele bog standard Chardonnay that she produced from the frig. At least it was cold! But keep to topic.
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quote: Originally posted by WEc:
Out of curiosity, how many sub 85 point wines have you drank in the last year?
I have scored wines under 85 pts, but I don’t think I purposely went and purchased an 85 pt wine if that is what your asking???? |
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| Posts: 2192 | Location: OC, CA (Currently in London) | Registered: Aug 01, 2007 | |
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What is BWI. The other two are very reputable. So no problem.
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What did people think of the Sauternes at the UGC tastings? I thought they were a nice blend of the lively and racy 2001s and the opulent and flamboyant 2003.
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JS... Despite the agreement or disagreements in this thread, I would like to say it has been interesting and fun having you participate. As always. Many thanks!
So much wine.....so little time!!!
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| Posts: 6799 | Location: San Francisco | Registered: Jun 20, 2002 | |
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quote: Originally posted by James Suckling:
What did people think of the Sauternes at the UGC tastings? I thought they were a nice blend of the lively and racy 2001s and the opulent and flamboyant 2003.
I enjoyed the Lafaurie Peyraguey, Doisy Daene, La Tour Blanche, Climens and Suduiraut, but the Guiraud was my wine of the day. I can't wait to see what a D'Yquem will taste like.
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"All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." Matthew 10:22
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| Posts: 1726 | Location: Illinois | Registered: Jun 29, 2005 | |
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I wonder how many Bordeaux will be in this year's top 10.
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"All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." Matthew 10:22
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| Posts: 1726 | Location: Illinois | Registered: Jun 29, 2005 | |
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quote: Originally posted by Brashley: quote: Originally posted by James Suckling:
There are so many good values out there in 2005, if they are available in the US. I found dozens of good to outstanding quality wines in my December tasting that are going to cost from $15 to $45 a bottle. For example, I drank the other day a bottle of 2005 Z Bordeaux, from the former owner of Labegorce Zede, and it was a very good quality bottle. It cost $12.99. Granted, it's not 90 points, more like 85 or 86, but for that price and for that quality. Where else can you find a fun bottle for that price with some finesse and style?
This is great news! I disagree with others who've suggested that wine geeks are looking for nothing less than 90 pointers. A couple months ago I found out about 2003 Cambon Le Pelouse (Haut-Medoc) (Bordeaux Superieur) --- at $15/750ml, I actually find myself more excited about this "pedestrian" Bordeaux than I do some of the more prestigious names. And I believe you even scored the '03 Cambon La Pelouse below 90 points! I agree James, there are plenty of quality 80+ pointers out there that are well worth buying.
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| Posts: 844 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: Dec 04, 2007 | |
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This is all I was able to afford: - 2005 Ch Leoville Las Cases - 2005 Ch Margaux Ok, I better stop thinking how much I am going to pay for these and how much joy I will get when it is time to drink them...  My local wine shop has these two 2005s which are pretty decent: - 2005 Paviel De Luze, Margaux - 2005 Clos Manous, Medoc
Here is to great wines, expensive watches and... "low" APR credit cards...
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| Posts: 141 | Location: San Anton, TX | Registered: Jan 24, 2008 | |
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What would you rather buy with $325 walking in to Sherry-Lehman in New York. And your heart is set on a bottle of Leovilla Las Cases. You can drink a great bottle of the 1985 (one of the best of the vintage) or buy the 2005, which isn't even in the market yet. Makes you think...
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Even without having tried or even checked out the '85, that decision would take somewhat less than 0.037 seconds. Which is why I have not purchased any 2005s to date. Moo
Your share of the national debt has increased by $6,180 from 10/1 - 9/30/09. Have you told your kids and grand kids they will be paying back your share in addition to their own?
Limit all politicians to two terms. One in office, one in prison. Follow the lead of Illinois...
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| Posts: 931 | Location: East BF, Egypt | Registered: May 15, 2002 | |
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quote: Originally posted by James Suckling:
What would you rather buy with $325 walking in to Sherry-Lehman in New York. And your heart is set on a bottle of Leovilla Las Cases. You can drink a great bottle of the 1985 (one of the best of the vintage) or buy the 2005, which isn't even in the market yet. Makes you think...
Yeah, I know I am wrong from the logical point of view but buying wine sometimes is not a rational thing... Funny you mention Las Cases '85. A friend of mine shared a bottle of it with me and that got me infatuated with the chateau. I have been able to get at least one bottle from their 2000 vintage to 2005 (IF, I get the 2005).
Here is to great wines, expensive watches and... "low" APR credit cards...
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| Posts: 141 | Location: San Anton, TX | Registered: Jan 24, 2008 | |
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What would you rather buy with $325 walking in to Sherry-Lehman in New York. And your heart is set on a bottle of Leovilla Las Cases. You can drink a great bottle of the 1985 (one of the best of the vintage) or buy the 2005, which isn't even in the market yet. Makes you think... Makes me think of another question: What would you buy if you walked into Sherry-Lehman with $325 and your heart set on buying a bottle of Las Cases to replace the 1985 you are about to go home and drink from your cellar? Point being that no one is buying 2005 LLC to drink tonight or serve at their daughter's wedding in June. Maybe their grandchild's wedding....
Of Love and Wine: Always to spark the flame, but never to douse the fire
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| Posts: 177 | Location: The OC | Registered: Aug 23, 2006 | |
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quote: Originally posted by James Suckling:
What did people think of the Sauternes at the UGC tastings? I thought they were a nice blend of the lively and racy 2001s and the opulent and flamboyant 2003.
I loved almost all the stickies, but decided to buy the Guiraud and Suduiraut. The edge went to the Sudi, but the Guiraud is a sentimental favorite
"Allocating wines is not rocket science. I mean, any dipsh-t can figure out rocket science." Dan Kosta
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| Posts: 232 | Location: Near Napa, Ca | Registered: Nov 20, 2006 | |
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MoBoYo: That wasn't the point of the question...was it? Let me explain more simply for you. I sometimes find it disheartening that something as beautiful as the 1985 Las Cases, which I have drunk a few times this year, is about the same price as its baby sister or brother 2005. Don't you? Or is it more interesting to buy young Bordeaux for your child's or grandchild's wedding?
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quote: Originally posted by James Suckling:
What did people think of the Sauternes at the UGC tastings? I thought they were a nice blend of the lively and racy 2001s and the opulent and flamboyant 2003.
I tried the Doisy Daene, La Tour Blanche, Climens, Suduiraut, Fargues and Guiraud. I found them all quite similar, but the Fargues and Guiraud stood out easily on top. With the Guiraud at half the cost (in Ontario), that was the one I bought. I found the Suduiraut a little more cloying than the others. However, I must say that all of them were definitely less acidic than I would have liked. Any less acidity and they all would have been just too sweet and not refreshing enough. |
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| Posts: 750 | Location: Palm Beach, Florida | Registered: May 05, 2005 | |
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True, but newer consumers/collectors like myself have a propensity to look at what is released/being released now. I will probably understand your point a heck of a lot more in a couple of years. I started collecting with 95 Bordeauxs and am heavy on 2000 and 2005 futures.It's a great hobby. My wife is supportive and says, "it beats collecting baseball cards". Must be that we did not eat those cards  quote: Originally posted by James Suckling:
MoBoYo: That wasn't the point of the question...was it? Let me explain more simply for you. I sometimes find it disheartening that something as beautiful as the 1985 Las Cases, which I have drunk a few times this year, is about the same price as its baby sister or brother 2005. Don't you? Or is it more interesting to buy young Bordeaux for your child's or grandchild's wedding?
"The 8th grade was the best four years of my life".
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| Posts: 77 | Location: Charlotte, North Carolina | Registered: Dec 31, 2007 | |
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Senior Editor
Wine Spectator
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Open a bottle of the 1995 with your Mrs. She might even appreciate your collecting more....then share with her something more mature.
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