I was trying to follow some Thomas Keller recipes and my god, they are so involved.
One was for fried chicken, first you boil the brine, then you brine the chicken for an exact amount of time, then you do something else, etc.
Wait a minute, you just flour the chicken and put it in hot oil, don't you.
Maybe I just don't have time in my life to follow his recipes, but they all seem to be really involved and time consuming.
I'm not trying to Rachael Ray dinner here, but really, must a recipe be this exacting?

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Originally posted by PURPLE:
I was trying to follow some Thomas Keller recipes and my god, they are so involved.
One was for fried chicken, first you boil the brine, then you brine the chicken for an exact amount of time, then you do something else, etc.
Wait a minute, you just flour the chicken and put it in hot oil, don't you.
Maybe I just don't have time in my life to follow his recipes, but they all seem to be really involved and time consuming.
I'm not trying to Rachael Ray dinner here, but really, must a recipe be this exacting?

Boiling the brine kills the bacteria, better integrates the salt and if you wanted to add other flavors like bay leaf, offers better extraction medium then cold water. (would imagine you let the brine cool before putting in the chicken).
Brining the chicken adds flavor to a rather bland white meat. An important point is that salt water boils at a higher temp, so when cooking, the moisture in the chicken doesn't all boil off, leaving you with hard/tough to chew bland meat. Some fried chicken leaves the meat juicy though without the brine prep because all that oil goes back into the meat. While tasty, not as healthy.

Not saying I would actually bother since I don't run a restaurant, but I understand =)

To answer your question, I think at times recipes should be involved. That being said, it depends on what you are making and if the increased steps/time actually improve the recipe. Personally, I think fried chicken is significantly better if brined prior to cooking. If you don't brine the chicken, at least soak it overnight in buttermilk. While time consuming, doing either of these makes a big impact on the finished product IMO.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Keeno,

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Originally posted by Keeno:
at least soak it overnight in buttermilk. While time consuming, doing either of these makes a big inpact on the finished product IMO.

and you get a wonderful thicker breading with buttermilk

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Originally posted by g-man:

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Originally posted by Keeno:
at least soak it overnight in buttermilk. While time consuming, doing either of these makes a big inpact on the finished product IMO.

and you get a wonderful thicker breading with buttermilk

Agreed. How does one from New York know so much about fried chicken?

I've sworn off any recipe that comes from Martha Stewart. Every time I've tried one, I end up dirtying every pan/dish in the kitchen. Fine for her, she's got a cleanup crew. I don't.

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Originally posted by Keeno:

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Originally posted by g-man:

quote:

Originally posted by Keeno:
at least soak it overnight in buttermilk. While time consuming, doing either of these makes a big inpact on the finished product IMO.

and you get a wonderful thicker breading with buttermilk

Agreed. How does one from New York know so much about fried chicken?

Heh, and what does North "I put vinegar in everything" Carolina know about fried chicken =)

I enjoy cooking, but there is a limit to my time, desire, and level of expertise. That's why I leave the tough recipes to the professionals.

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Originally posted by g-man:

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Originally posted by Keeno:

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Originally posted by g-man:

quote:

Originally posted by Keeno:
at least soak it overnight in buttermilk. While time consuming, doing either of these makes a big inpact on the finished product IMO.

and you get a wonderful thicker breading with buttermilk

Agreed. How does one from New York know so much about fried chicken?

Heh, and what does North "I put vinegar in everything" Carolina know about fried chicken =)

Actually, I am originally from Georgia. I moved here after college. Price's Chicken Coop in Charlotte is darn good though.

In regards to bbq, I do enjoy NC barbecue (eastern and Lexington), but have no allegiance to any particular style. Barbecue, in my opinion, is best enjoyed without a lot of prejudice (ducking now). Not saying one shouldn't have preferences or try to seek out the best, but there are too many good representations of each regional style for one to say that something like "I won't eat that because it is mustard-based" or "I won't eat brisket." This is a whole other thread topic though.

Thomas Keller's recipes are brutal.....

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Originally posted by Gigond Ass:
Thomas Keller's recipes are brutal.....

Oh that reminds me of his Confit Biyaldi recipe (ratatouille) that took me and the wife 4 hours to prep... 2 hours to cook the first day and another hour the next, another 30 minutes just to plate.

No kidding! I think the only Keller recipe I feel entirely comfortable with is the gazpacho. Oh, I can big pot blanch asparagus and sugar snaps like a fiend.

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Originally posted by indybob:
No kidding! I think the only Keller recipe I feel entirely comfortable with is the gazpacho. Oh, I can big pot blanch asparagus and sugar snaps like a fiend.

I like his recipe for hot ham water.

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Originally posted by Berno:

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Originally posted by indybob:
No kidding! I think the only Keller recipe I feel entirely comfortable with is the gazpacho. Oh, I can big pot blanch asparagus and sugar snaps like a fiend.

I like his recipe for hot ham water.

Me too! Watery, yet with a smack of ham. Goes best with Cloud Mir vodka.

quote:

really, must a recipe be this exacting?

Short answer - no. The problem is that people don't understand what they are doing and they don't know how to cook. We have a generation that grew up on convenience foods and fast foods and then they started watching cooking shows. I don't think a lot of those people on the shows can really cook all that well either.

But if you have never nailed two boards together, the description of how to do it would seem tremendously complicated. If you grew up doing carpentry, you just do it. Then when someone shows you their trick for doing something, there is a whole context for it and you get so much more out of their example.

Plus, because he's publishing a recipe, guys like Keller have to have times and measurements. When I brine something, I heat it just because everything involved dissolves better, as someone pointed out. And if you have herbs, they're like tea - you want to extract some flavor and it's easier and faster with a warm liquid.

I have no idea whatsoever how long that takes. And I have no idea whatsoever EXACTLY how much of everything goes in. I just know that you want to get the flavor to a certain point.

So if you understand some principles involved with cooking, and you seem to, then you should just be looking at relationships between ingredients or novelty in technique, not a step by step instruction manual. That's not really cooking anyhow IMO.

So you make your chicken one way. You read his cookbook. "Oh, he brines it," you read. OK, go make some brine. Put the chicken in. If it gets too "brined", then don't put it in as long next time. If it's too salty, don't use as much salt next time. The key to the brine is the salt and sugar and the liquid. Use wine. Use juice. Use vinegar. Use water. Use whatever spice strikes your fancy. The take-away from the recipe is brining, then frying. That's pretty much it. The rest is filling space so he can justify charging whatever the book costs.

Cooking is fun. But it isn't if you have a book open and you're measuring and timing based on what that book says. Ignore most of it. Remember, explaining how to walk is extremely complicated. Where to place the foot, ball, toe, heel movements, where to look, how to push off with the back foot, etc. If you break it down, you'll probably fall. Same with cooking. Read the recipe, get the idea, and put the book away.

I have his French Laundry cookbook and read through it, but have not nor will I attempt to make anything from it.

My family and I believe in a simple recipe for tasty food - the highest quality ingredients available, simply prepared.

At times, I'll make some overly intricate recipe and usaully find that there are too many easier alternatives that are just as good or better to make the intrucate one worth repeating.

I've had this experience with a "Sunday Suppers at Lucques". Basically for Portugese clams, it involved making confit pork about a half week before. Now some aspects of the recipe were wonderful, but overall , really labor intensive.
I'll eventually do the Thomas Keller version of fried chicken when I can block out about 8 hours of a weekend.

I like intricate recipes when I have the time. Even the weekends can be extremely busy – kids activities, sports, house projects, lawn care, social gatherings..... Actually, I relish the opportunity to make an intricate dish because the opportunity so rarely seems to present itself.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Altaholic,

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Originally posted by cdr:
I have his French Laundry cookbook and read through it, but have not nor will I attempt to make anything from it.

cdr, try the gazpacho. It's delicious, and very manageable, once you have the ingredients assembled.