Wine Spectator Online Wine Spectator Forums Dining and Cooking Disappointed in restaurant experiences?
Wine Spectator Forums Dining and Cooking Disappointed in restaurant experiences? Topic Closed|
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Sigh, I don't even know why I bother anymore, I really don't. Have a nice evening Board-O.
-IB Ban Trolls. |
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G-man-
Yes, we are in agreement. Austin St. is a big disappointment. Neil |
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Really Board-0, was the  really necessary? I was just trying to figure out what it was that warranted a scorched earth review.Your first post centered on the "borderline ridiculous" rolls. I suspected that was not the real cause. Your second post seemed to emphasize the food quality. Apparently the food being "good, but nothing special" was a disappointment. And at the price they charge, I can understand. However, to merit a "single most overrated restaurant" claim, I would have expected a disastrous dining experience rather than a less than pleasant one. I too have been under whelmed at some high profile restaurants. But I have or would be willing to give every one of them a second chance. Got acid? @@@@@@@@@@@@ Everyone has to believe in something. I believe I’ll have another glass of wine. |
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I can't imagine going to a reputedly fine and very expensive restaurant and finding the first six courses as nothing special and not finding that a major negative.
Just one more sip. |
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"good, but nothing special"
Got acid? @@@@@@@@@@@@ Everyone has to believe in something. I believe I’ll have another glass of wine. |
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[QUOTE] However, to merit a "single most overrated restaurant" claim, I would have expected a disastrous dining experience rather than a less than pleasant one.
QUOTE] This sentence got me thinking. If I went to a famous restaurant and had a disastrous dining experience, I might be more likely to chalk up the experience as a bad break, and give the place another chance. If I had a mediocre experience, I might actually be less likely. |
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This is the part that stood out for me. Nothing I hate more than dropping a bundle of cash on "fine dining", and then having to grab a burger on the way home because we left hungry.  *********** "Never RE-elect anybody." --Keith Squier |
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I refuse to dine at Trotters since he help led Chicago city to ban foie gras. That is reason enough for me to not eat at his place, have to go to the suburbs now.
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Have been at too many Trotters, Emile's, Puck's etc.
Most all are overpriced, rushed, small portions, poor service. they live on name alone. Have eaten at them in LA, NOLA, LV, and Chicago. All memorable for prices, noise, and no ambiance. We love resturants where the owner is in attentdance, does droop by the table, and checks how things are. |
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A bunch of my friends worked at Spago Palo Alto. From their perspective, it was a glorified McDonalds. Everyone I heard from who went there, went there to say that they'd been there. It was also clear that VIP customers got a completely different level of service than the rabble. To me, "good, not great" equates to an 80-84 pt. wine. Need I say more? I've been amazed how good so many of my friends are at cooking. I've had many home meals over the last few years that would shame most restaurants. 15 years ago, going to a "fine dining" place around here was an act of masochism, almost guaranteed to be far inferior to my favorite Chinese restaurants, for many times the price. The srevers were all arrogant, lazy, indifferent scam artists. Now the food culture has blossomed. Many more, better restaurants. Cooking classes by top local chef. Restaurant work is considered an honorable occupation. At least one farmers market in every city. Plenty of great butchers, produce markets, etc... |
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Bob, I just got back from a year in Afghanistan, Kuwait, and Kirgistan. Not only did I deal with local nationals in all of those countries I also dealt with Jordanians, Pakistanis, and a few other Middle Eastern nations. I dealt with an Afghan-born American-educated translator. He confirmed the following: Middle Eastern people do not put such a high priority on bathing. It isn't hard to figure out why, they're in a desert. I sat in near proximity of these people, ok, I ate with them at the same table and talked with them often. 99.99999% of the time they had what we would categorize as body odor. We find it unappealing, there is nothing bigoted about that. Actually many of the local nationals would say we stunk. They said it smelled like we bathed in honey and it was very strange to them. I don't have anything against Middle Eastern people, but if they smell they smell. Could Bord-O simply said two loud smelly people? Yes, I suppose he could, but, just because he stated a nationality doesn't make it bigoted. I often tell the story of the smelly Russian exchange students I lived next to in college. Does this mean I don't like Russians? No, it is just a better picture of the situation. ------------------------------ Anyhow, I have been very lucky not to have any lack-luster restaurant experiences. My father-in-law went to Le Bec Fin a few years back said service was the best he ever received and the food and wine were amazing. Cost over $3000 for 5 people. What does he remember most? Burnt rolls. Sometimes the slightest of imperfections can ruin an otherwise sublime experience. -------------------------------- calix meus inebrians. disce quasi semper victurus vive quasi cras moriturus. |
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Curt,
Glad you got back safely. I hope your time over there was rewarding. What if Board-O's original sentence had read: "We were seated on time at a table next to 2 loud Jewish men with headdresses who actually smelled. We asked to be moved a minute after we were seated. There were other tables open and the server grudgingly moved us." If nobody on the forums would have a problem with the above then fine, I'll admit my wrong and learn from my mistake. -IB Ban Trolls. |
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How would I have known they were Jewish?
You really have a bug up your behind about ethnicity, don't you? What gives? Just one more sip. |
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B-O,
How did you know the original gentlemen were Middle Eastern? -IB Ban Trolls. |
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Are you dense? They were wearing robes and headdresses. I't wasn't Halloween. They were speaking loudly in Arabic. Duh!
Look, you have some serious problems with ethnicity. Leave me out of your obsessions. Just one more sip. |
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Damn, B-O, maybe the "headdresses" were Yarmulkes and they were speaking Hebrew, even then, it's an assumption. I'd bet plenty of folks would take issue with the sentence below. repeat: "We were seated on time at a table next to 2 loud Jewish men with headdresses who actually smelled. We asked to be moved a minute after we were seated. There were other tables open and the server grudgingly moved us." -IB Ban Trolls. |
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I don't see any problem with calling a spade a spade. If Board-O wanted to move away from the table just because they were Middle Eastern (loudness & odor taking out of the statement) then I would call him a racist. Political correctness is producing a generation of overly sensitive pansies. I miss the days would you could refer to a fat person as fat, smelly person as smelly, etc... It not that referring to a fat person as fat is an insult (tone has a lot to do with it), there just fat. Referring to a person as a stinky middle eastern or stinky jewish person doesn't make them anything more than a stinky person. Why must we create sensitive labels for people just to not harm their feelings, get over it and take it with a grain of salt. That or judge a person by their true actions, not moments of being hot headed, stubborn, or misspoken. We all have our days. Instead of trying not to offend people why can't we try to understand them and accept them for what they are: fat, stupid, ethnic, whatever. Words only hurt if you let them. |
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Is Ethnicity important here?
We were once seated in a restaurant beside two individuals who kept making loud tapping sounds by tapping their fingers on the table. We were once seated in a restaurant beside two Chinese individuals who kept making loud tapping sounds by tapping their fingers on the table. ____________________ An intelligent man is sometimes forced to be drunk to spend time with his fools. - Hemingway |
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First, we all know that indybob is a little sensitive on issues of race and ethnicity. Frankly, had I lived in his shoes, I might be a wee bit touchy on the subject. Keep in mind that I'm a white male, but I was born and raised in Southeast Asia and do have some recollection of what it was like to be judged (unfavorably) based on my skin color and national origin.
That being said, I think that the level of concern or offense derived from specifying a race or ethnicity in a description of an individual or individuals has a lot to do with: 1) The tone and context of the description. 2) The specific racial or ethnic group being described. Let's take the description that originally prompted this discussion: We were seated on time at a table next to 2 loud Middle Eastern men with headdresses who actually smelled. Now, remove "Middle Eastern men with headdresses" and substitute some of the following:
etc., etc....... It seems that the groups most likely to be defined as persecuted or discriminated against, or the descriptions that have implicit judgements contained within bring forth the most visceral response to having them specified in the description. At least it does for me. The "White Guys" definition might even be judged to be totally superfluous on these boards, but if the post was made on a mostly black message board, it could be perceived to be racist in that context. PH |
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Problem comes from association with particular races with specific stereotypes about those races. Further problem comes from fact that many stereotypes are in part based on reality, while others may not be (effect is that some that are based on facts are dismissed by certain people because they are 'stereotypes, and therefore must be false', others that believe stereotypes that may be completely false).
Someone posted that middle eastern people may smell because their cultural norms are different than ours. This person also pointed out that they may think that we also smell. So, chalk it up to cultural differences, and agree that it may be a fact that we smell to them and they smell to us, so we both stink and if we say they stink or they say we stink both are probably true from each of our perspectives...so is it bad to say they/we stink? As for the loudness, I won't identify any particular cultures that I think are loud, but I certainly notice that some cultures seem to behave differently in social situations than others...some loud, some reserved, some in between. Not sure if this applies to middle eastern people. Not sure if these guys were middle eastern or if board-o was making an assumption, but he said they were speaking arabic so presumably they were middle eastern (unless he doesn't actually speak/recognize arabic, in which case maybe they might have been north african, etc.). Comparing the particular statement to the other mentioned perceived minority groups does not really make sense unless the stereotype also applied to those groups (of course I concede that you may have been making a point that it is a stereotype that middle eastern men are loud and smell, and suggested that the statement would not have made sense/had the same impact if it had involved loud smelly nuns or jewish guys, and that therefore the statement was 'racist' as opposed to just casually mentioning that they were middle eastern). If board-o said he asked to be moved because he thought the jewish guys next to him would not leave a big enough tip and would thereby offend him, or the chinese guys next to him that clearly couldnt drive were bugging him because they drove their car through the window in the restaurant and were still sitting in it to eat their meal, or the black guys sitting next to him were distracting his wife because they had their enormous genitalia sitting on the table, or the white guys sitting next to him were bothering him because of their inability to dance, or some other similar typical stereotype, it probably would have been perceived a little differently than a statement regarding two loud white guys who smelled, two black guys who couldn't drive, two nuns who had their enormous genitalia on the table, or two jewish guys who couldn't shake their booties. "No TV and no beer make Homer...something, something" |
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by PurpleHaze:
/QUOTE] Your list seems like an odd choice of names to me for restaurants, but what do I know. Sorry you were disappointed in all of them. I think you win the award for the longest list PH!  |
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Was there a point to this or did you just want to throw out stereotypes???   |
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Hey, let's leave Scotsmen out of this! I don't want my haggis poisoned this summer.
Just one more sip. |
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I for one would have no problem if it were Jewish men in speedos, Catholic girls in skirts, California hippies in dreads, white business men in blazers, or the Pope in a robe. They stunk and were loud. That's all I'd care about. Maybe I'm naive but describing a person accurately is not bigoted. -------------------------------- calix meus inebrians. disce quasi semper victurus vive quasi cras moriturus. |
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