We had dinner not too long ago in one of the top restaurants in the U.S., I won't mention a name, but you've all heard of it. We had the tasting menu, and the "Sommelier" suggested he do a wine pairing. We agreed, thinking we would be in good hands. The food was top notch, but the wines sucked. And I mean sucked. The highlight of the evening was a 2002 Burgundy. We kept hoping that the next wine would be better, but we got 4 poor warm climate whites in a row. The sommelier thought he was impressing us with his knowledge of obscure information and varietals. Sometimes obscure stuff is obscure because it's garbage. What happened in the last few years? How did sommeliers begin to confuse good wine with hard-to-get or different wine? Maybe we are giving too many guys (or girls) who have some wine books and passed a tasting exam, the opportunity to pair wines with absolutely impeccably prepared food creations. Wine pairing is a talent, and when it's done right by the right person, there's nothing to compare it to.
And that's what I expect when I go to one of these restaurants and pay $500 for dinner. I won't go back to that one, even though the food was perfect.

chef neal,
tell us the restaurant, did you ask if the chef new what he or she was serving with the food? i wood have tasted the wines and told him or her that i did not like it or it doesn't match very good to you. your paying the bill
you can all way's put him or her on the spot in a nice way. tell him or her that it taste funny, would he taste it. an watch the look on his or her face.if they say nothing wrong then ask to she the wine menu.
after the forth wine you stuck your self.
spending that kind of money speak up!

bez 780
ya you're totally right, and I felt like a dumb ass for spending that much money to get mad at a "sommelier", and I'm using that term really loosely, but that just makes my point:
Why did that happen in such a restaurant? I go there so I don't have to complain about anything, right? So when did big name restaurants start dropping the ball, and why?

restaurants, like any business have their "peaks". A magical point in a restaurants life where everything is firing on all cylinders. It could be, that this restaurant is currently on the decline. They have already peaked.

That's not to say that it will never be as good again... it could very well be even better. It's just right now it's in funk. Nothing more, nothing less.

==================
AIM: Drunken Mariachi

chef neal,
were the wines paired with the food on the menu?
if not the chef -owner need to know what is happening in the front of the house. the wine steward may be making a little extra in the front on what wine he sells, not every one is honest.
email or call and tell them what happen. best on the phone or in person.
all most soundes like the french landry??
but when we were there i did not see a bad wine on the list.
cal. cabs. $100 up.
again if it was not on the menu call!!!!!

Charlie Trotter's?

Just one more sip.

Man I know why that place is called trotters. I had to pull over on the way home cuse I got the trots so bad after i had me some supper there.

I got no remorse for the things I've done, watch out honey were gonna have some FUN!

bez, I never even considered payola. I should mention something to the chef. and next time, I'll speak up right away

name names - a sure way to get someone's attention to what's going on in "his or hers" restaurant. at least name the wine guru, sounds like somebody needs to check back at reality central.

Free Martha!

What's in a name? What's the point? Only one person has actually addressed the point, but that's o.k., because this is a chat forum after all.
I think it would be in very very bad taste to name the restaurant, worse taste in fact, than their wines. Valerian root, they say, is very effective if you are having trouble sleeping.

I don't see it as being bad taste. You had a bad experience there, you spent mucho moolah there. They have your money. It's your right to let others know your thoughts on the restaurant. It's not like you got everything for free there. You paid for their services. Their services were poor. Why should others have to suffer the same fate?

==================
AIM: Drunken Mariachi

nicely said,

bad taste??? name the wines that "sucked" first and then we'll talk about bad taste.

Free Martha!

Isn't French Laundry closed now for remodeling while he's away getting the new NYC one up and running?

Wine pairings are almost always a bad bet if you are a wine afficianado. The pairings are usually aimed at, if not the lowest common denominator, close to it. When making up the menu and wine choices, the restaurant has no way of knowing if the diners that evening will be Jancis Robinson and Andrea Immer, or Homer Simpson and his friend Barney. To play it safe, the restaurant will usually choose the functional equivalent of K-J wines (though most pairings I see are almost all European wines...more chance of fooling the unsuspecting customer). If you are in the top 2% of the dining public when it comes to wine knowledge and passion (and I think that people who participate on boards such as this qualify), you will invariably go home disappointed.

I attended a wine dinner prepared by Daniel Boulud (not at his restaurant, he was a guest chef at another establishment) and the 6 course meal came all set up with paired wines. No options. Now, here's a guy with a top 5 restaurant, and a wine list to put up against anyones. He knows wine. The food was stunning. But every wine we had that evening was mediocre. I had never heard of a single one of them. The highest score I gave any wine was 88 pts. Curious, I looked up the scores from RMP and WS. The highest score that either source had for any of the wines was 87 pts.

I don't think that this experience is unique. You get "solid" and unispired selections designed to target the middle of the road wine drinker. If you love wine, you should always order yourself. Or you could let the sommelier know that you are a passionate wine collector, and would really appreciate glasses of stunning wine paired with your meal. I doubt that will help. But it could be worth a try.

finally someone who actually read the first post in the thread
thanks thats what I was looking for, some confirmation that I wasn't alone, and a reason that explains what happened
See, I was right not to mention the name of the restaurant, because the chef would have suffered bad press with everyone on this page. We just have to be more educated consumers. Next time, I'll order my own wine, or ask the sommelier if he/she can put together an outstanding pairing. Live and learn.

p.s. Jimmy V's eyes only I hate naming names, but we had dinner at the home restaurant of who you named, and we had the wines paired, and man, it was spectacular!!!!! That's what spoiled me for life, I think, and then I just expected it at every other restaurant that had such a reputation. Not so.

no word on wines then . i'm simply curious what wines were served.
and i seriously doubt your opinion would cause that restaurant any harm.

Free Martha!

Although I agree with JimmyV's point, it still doens't give restaurant the right to pair fine food with plunk wines.

chef neil's experience was the wine sucked, to me that sounds like it's just bad wine. There are plenty of safe wines out there that can be very enjoyable when paired right. I don't think it's too much to ask the restaurant to do their homework on making their wine pairing at least that.

Now, a question for chef neil and please do not take this as an offense in anyway shape or form.

Were you aware of what wines were going to be paired with each course? Or did you just went with the sommelier's suggestion without knowing what wines are going to show up? If it's the later, then I think you are partially responsible for your bad experience.

---------------------------
www.winebid.com

We just let the sommelier pair the wines, but the thing is that we didn't know what food we would be eating, we just had a blind tasting menu.

We did this at Daniel, and that's what has spoiled us. Now I expect every big name chef to be as good. Daniel didn't miss a thing. Food - hey, I'm not worthy to even comment on it, and the sommelier was a sommelier in the true sense of the word. He was adept at pairings, and also at learning what kind of consumers we were and what we would be impressed with. Sign of a true blue professional. He nailed it.
We went into the lounge for an Armagnac later, and my wife was seated on the bench. She was just forming the thought that maybe it would be better to sit in a chair, when a waiter appeared with a pillow and placed it behind her back. When she asked where the washroom was, she was escorted, not just a "to the left" and a point. On and on.
When I spend this kind of dough, I don't want to do any work. There are a lot of restaurants I need to go to still, but if I want to be spoiled, I'll go to Daniel or Le Bernardin. Any comments on Le Cirque, or Ducasse, in this train of thought? Where else can you go, and the standards are this high?

what do pillows and washrooms have to do with wine pairing?
p.s. common now, are you gonna mention the wines or not? please

Free Martha!

chef neil,

Check out this thread, Blue Oval's dinner at La Toque. This should be what wine pairing with the tasting menu is all about.

---------------------------
www.winebid.com

details are in order, chef neil.

Free Martha!

Some STUPID 2002 South African riesling
some 2001 alicante
really bad 2002 chile Sauv Blanc
cheese Italian chard (or was it oak-water?)
2001 Savoie Mondeuse
some 2002 gevrey-chambertin for the coup de resistance red
1986 d'Yquem (corked) Wich I sent back and they replaced with a CAB FRANC ICE WINE inniskillin 2001

Wait there was one good wine. We had a bottle of Bolly RD ,but we ordered that ourselves as soon as we arrived.

thanks, that helps to paint a somewhat better picture. do you remember which gevrey it was? i promise, i won't bug you anymore

Free Martha!

quote:

---

Originally posted by chef neil:
1986 d'Yquem (corked) Wich I sent back and they replaced with a CAB FRANC ICE WINE inniskillin 2001

---

That's a bunch of crap! I would of demanded them open another bottle. Can't imagine that's the last bottle if it was on the wine pairing list.

I hope they at least knocked some $$ off your b