Now that I have some Bordeaux’s in my cellar that can sit and age for a little while, I want to turn my attention to my second favorite kind of wine, Riesling. With the first half of this decade looking good, I would like to concentrate on 2001-2005. I’m looking for wine with 10-20 year potential, preferably less than $100/bottle. I would like everything from Kabinett to Eiswein although I don’t know if Kabinetts and Spatleses can be aged this long. I would like 15 bottles or so, but can’t afford everything at once so I will be shopping over the next year or two.

Two wine that I have had that I wouldn’t mind having the newer vintages in are:

1986 Balbach Niersteiner Klostergarten Trockenbeerenauslese
(I paid $86 for this bottle maybe 8 years ago, and I do realize that prices have changed and this wasn’t one of the better vintages.)

1976 Dr. Heinrich Nagler Auslese
(I don’t have the bottle as it was a gift for my brother, and he still has the bottle so I’m not sure of the entire label. I paid $50 for this bottle also about 8 years ago.)

Any recommendations and pitfalls to avoid would be greatly appreciated. I know that’s kind of broad, but any in every little bit of information helps. Thank you.

Shane,

Look for rieslings from J.J. Prum. The wines are typically under $100 for recent vintages, and the spatlese and auslese can age easily for 10-20 years under proper storage. Also, there is a ton of praise for wehlener-sonnenuhr, and rightfully so, but for a little less money Graacher-Himmelreich delivers a great experiance. Hope that helps a bit.

Last night at a tasting I tried a 2006 J.J. Prum Wehelener Sonnenuhr Auslese and liked it very much. I’m half way through reading “Windows On The World” by Kevin Zraly, and he indicates 2001-2005 are exceptional years for German wines with 2001 being really exceptional, so I thought I would see what vintages of the wine I could find at what prices and maybe get a couple of different years of it.

I also tried the following wines (which I thought I might also seek out):

2007 (Kd) Dillman Piesporter Michelsberg Auslese
2007 (Kd) Kloster Steinberger Kabinett
2007 Schmitt Sohne Beerenauslese (I really liked this wine.)
2007 Maximin Grunhauser Herrenberg Kabinett (I thought it was OK, but my wife really liked it.)
Dienhard Beerenauslese (I didn’t catch the vintage.)
2007 Monchoff Mosel Slate

The problem is I’m unsure of the age worthiness of these wines. The Beerenausleses I.m sure would be just fine to hang on to.

Although it wasn’t a true wine, I tried something called “Forbidden” from a company named Alba. It was a “Ice Wine” made from apples. It was like drinking a baked apple pie. It was sweet with some acid, lots of apple flavor and cinnamon. It is supposed to retail for $17.49 according to the distributor, so I may get a couple of bottles of it too, just for fun.

Before you sit these down for 20 years, I would make sure that you enjoy aged riesling. You often can find back-dated riesling for a fair price.

brad, please tell us more.

quote:

Originally posted by sprnplr:
Before you sit these down for 20 years, I would make sure that you enjoy aged riesling. You often can find back-dated riesling for a fair price.

2001 and 2002 are exceptional German Riesling vintages. I had a tasting of several Ausleses of that vintage which were excellent. Some had a slight fizz, others did not.

This one in particular was excellent:
Muller-Catoir "Gimmeldinger Mandelgarten" Riesling Spatlese Pfalz
2002, Germany

Also, as Tbird said, you can get fair prices on aged Rieslings. One place in NYC is Crush on 57th st. (I see you are in the NYC area).

quote:

Originally posted by John in NYC:
2001 and 2002 are exceptional German Riesling vintages. I had a tasting of several Ausleses of that vintage which were excellent. Some had a slight fizz, others did not.

This one in particular was excellent:
Muller-Catoir "Gimmeldinger Mandelgarten" Riesling Spatlese Pfalz
2002, Germany

Also, as Tbird said, you can get fair prices on aged Rieslings. One place in NYC is Crush on 57th st. (I see you are in the NYC area).

fyi a spatlese is not an auslese =)

Oh yes that I knew regarding the Spatlese. I had that Spatlese at a separate time. I was wondering whether someone would take the time to read through that long wine name I typed out in my previous post. Well, now I know. To add, that particular wine is very different from other German Rieslings I have had, notably for more of its savory instead of sweet aromas.

But what would be interesting if doing Riesling series tastings for a first time would be a line up of Riesling Trochen, Riesling Kabinett, Riesling Spatlese, and Riesling Auslese. As we know, there are Rieslings with even higher residual sugar levels like Beerenauslese, Eiswein, and Trochenbeerenauslese (VERY tough to find).

quote:

Originally posted by John in NYC:
Oh yes that I knew regarding the Spatlese. I had that Spatlese at a separate time. I was wondering whether someone would take the time to read through that long wine name I typed out in my previous post. Well, now I know. To add, that particular wine is very different from other German Rieslings I have had, notably for more of its savory instead of sweet aromas.

But what would be interesting if doing Riesling series tastings for a first time would be a line up of Riesling Trochen, Riesling Kabinett, Riesling Spatlese, and Riesling Auslese. As we know, there are Rieslings with even higher residual sugar levels like Beerenauslese, Eiswein, and Trochenbeerenauslese (VERY tough to find).

that's an interesting thought.

I thought german wine ratings were based on Brix at picking and not residual sugar levels after fermentation. Does any one know?

Shane - 2001 and 2005 were fantastic years. 2002 was really good. In 2003 it was very hot. Because the rules regarding winemaking in much of Europe are so strict and logical, in Germany, where it is almost impossible to ripen grapes fully, it is illegal to acidify. But then again, if they have an exceptionally hot year, they simply change the rule. So the grapes had high sugar levels due to the heat and consequently many of them were sweet because of that as opposed to botrytis. Nonetheless, many producers made excellent wine.

The 2004 vintage would have been considered much better had it not followed on the heels of the 2005. Still, on its own, it's a really good vintage. The weakest, according to many winemakers, was 2006. And I can tell you that the 2006 vintage made some great wines too.

That gives you a lot to work with. If you stick with producers from great vineyards, e.g. Wehlener Sonnenheur, you'll do just fine.

However, you should really decide that you actually like aged riesling before stocking up. Your Bordeaux needs time to soften and integrate and it will improve with time. Your riesling will simply change - only your palate can determine whether that change is actually an improvement. Personally, I'd rather drink them young. Few grapes in the world are as good and as complex in their youth and to give that up for some aromas of gasoline and diminished fruit just doesn't excite me. But whatever blows your hair back. Good luck.

I researched more about the German Riesling labeling system through Jancis Robinson's Purple Pages and I copy paste here an interesting article which now has me even more curious:

Riesling sweetness scale launched
8 Sep 2008 by Jancis Robinson

The International Riesling Foundation has just launched its proposed Riesling Taste Profile, a graphic they would like to see on back labels of Rieslings to give us wine drinkers a vague idea of how sweet the wine inside is likely to taste together with voluntary technical guidelines given below.

This initiative, aimed at the American market but launched “in time to be available for use by northern hemisphere wineries on wines from the 2008 vintage” offers producers graphics to indicate four different levels of sweetness.

California wine writer Dan Berger who did much of the leg work in coming up with this scale, working in conjunction with mainly American Riesling specialists, comments: “Riesling may be made in many styles from bone dry to sweet, and this versatility can be both a strength and a weakness. Riesling’s many styles can fit almost any taste preference, but consumers may be put off if they are expecting one taste and get another.The taste profile will enhance Riesling’s strength by letting consumers know the basic taste before they open or even buy the bottle.”

Riesling is apparently the fastest growing white wine in the United States, second only to Sideways-boosted Pinot Noir of any wine; yet market research has shown that many consumers think of Riesling only as sweet.

Berger’s committee considered the interdependent parameters sugar, acid, and pH which affect the taste profile of a particular wine. Another key step in the project, we are told, was to identify appropriate terms for describing the relative dryness or sweetness of the wine.“After extensive deliberations,” says the press release, “the four categories selected are: Dry, Medium Dry, Medium Sweet, and Sweet.” Eureka!

The next step was to develop a simple graphic design showing the four levels from Dry to Sweet, and a simple indication of where a particular wine falls.This design may be used on back labels, merchandising materials, web sites and elsewhere.The goal is to have a common, simple, consumer-friendly system for identifying Riesling tastes.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: John in NYC,

To get back to partly Shane's question and G-Man's question,

In ascending order of natural grape ripeness: Tafelwein, Landwein, QbA, Kabinett, Spätlese, Auslese, BA and TBA. G-Man is right about the sugar ripeness reading at harvest time (Oechsle).

As for the residual sugar, this is what natural sugars remain after early stopping of the fermentation (usually by cooling the tank) so that there is some level of sweetness. Often one will taste more sweetness as it correlates to what the Oechsle readings were.

Shane, if you pick up some BA's and TBA's, those will hold for a long time. Just so you know, Austrian versions are somewhat easier to find and the winemakers there have to follow strict vinification laws as well.

For everybody interested, there is a German Riesling tasting next week. Here is the info and just RSVP:

The Riesling Fellowship Tasting 2008
Hosted by Wines of Germany with support from the International Riesling Foundation and the Institute of Masters of Wine North America

Monday, December 1, 2008
2 pm to 4 pm
The Mandarin Oriental Hotel Ballroom
80 Columbus Circle, New York, NY
entrance on 60th Street


RSVP to

http://www.keysurvey.com/survey/226218/1cc6/
OR
212-994-7523

Weird hours eh????

quote:

Originally posted by TBird:
brad, please tell us more.

quote:

Originally posted by sprnplr:
Before you sit these down for 20 years, I would make sure that you enjoy aged riesling. You often can find back-dated riesling for a fair price.

Nothing in my statement is a coelhoism. My comments are quite appropriate and founded on my, albeit young, it is sufficient, knowledge

quote:

Originally posted by sprnplr:
Nothing in my statement is a coelhoism. My comments are quite appropriate and founded on my, albeit young, it is sufficient, knowledge

quote:

Originally posted by TBird:

quote:

Originally posted by sprnplr:
Nothing in my statement is a coelhoism. My comments are quite appropriate and founded on my, albeit young, it is sufficient, knowledge

Amazing that you passed over the term sufficient.

I think that I've found enough cases of older riesling at reasonable prices (give or take generally under $40 per bottle) to make the determination that I prefer these older.

quote:

thought german wine ratings were based on Brix at picking and not residual sugar levels after fermentation. Does any one know?

Yes, the Pradikat wines are designated that way.

But to create additional confusion, there is also a movement to make completely dry wines, called variously Erste Laghe, Erstes Gewächs, or as they have finally decided, Grosses Gewachs. Next time I see you I'll explain that agreement.

They decided to classify certain vineyards and come up with a new naming system for the wines produced in those places. This system is in addition to the existing system.

Top are the Grosse Gewächs, or the "Great" growths.

Second are the Klassifizierte Lagenweine, which simply means that they are wines that came from one of the classified sites.

Last is the Ortsweine, or "house wine", which can be labeled with a made-up name like Opus One.

These wines will be coming from selected sites and will be fermented completely dry. BUT - they are to be picked at least at Spatlese level.

Just when you thought you understood it, they go and do something like that.

I should probably clarify, I’m not looking to drink all of my Rieslings old; I just want to have a tidy little stockpile of old ones. Like with my Bordeaux’s, I want to have enough to be able to have an aged one every now and then, with the rule being a young one goes in the cellar to replace it. Hopefully, I will always be able to pop into a store and pick-up a good young Riesling when I feel like it.

The 1976 Auslese I listed above was over 15 years old when we had it. It was an intense and outstanding wine to say the least. It’s been about 5 years or so since we drank it and I’m still thinking about it. With the quality of the newer vintages, now just seems like a good time to get some to age.

John, I do plan on hosting a tasting for my friends with the different kinds of Rieslings. I have a Trocken, a Spatlese, an Auslese, a Beerenauslese, a Trockenbeerenauslese, and an Eiswein. Just need a Kabinett (and maybe a Halb-Trocken) and I’ll be set. BTW, I live in Vegas, not NYC.