Hi. Can any of you shed some light on how these 3 differ? I do know that biodynamics represents the teachings of Rudolf Steiner and reps the biorhythm of the earth.

Also,

1)what are pros and cons of each?

2) Does any of this influence the marketing and commercial appeal of the finished product?

"Organic" implies practices that restrict or ban chemicals, synthetics and genetic engineering.

"Sustainability" means choosing crops and practices that are suitable for the local environment and that if perpetuated, will not cause any harm. So organic need not be sustainable and sustainable may not be organic.

Or, if you want other definitions:

Organic Agriculture defined by the National Organic Standards Board (NOSB): “an ecological production management system that promotes and enhances biodiversity, biological cycles and soil biological activity. It is based on minimal use of off-farm inputs and on management practices that restore, maintain, and enhance ecological harmony.”

"Sustainable" is actually even a broader term, as there is no governmental definition. Basically it means producing in harmony with the environment, building soil fertility, and generally protecting the environment beyond the farm.

That means protecting watersheds, managing pests in an ecological way by minimizing pesticides and fungicides, and maximizing biodiversity. You would probably be an "organic" producer, but you'd go beyond simply looking at your own crop and farm.

Biodynamic production means combining common sense and lunacy.

Thank you. I also was in touch with some winemakers in France, Australia, and California. If I piled up all of the input together regarding their views on the pros and cons on organic/biodynamic, it would be like one person's friend and another's foe.

I also liked what I read in Tom Stevenson's Wine Report 2008 for the Loire. It gives Charles Sydney's commentary.

John,

The term biodynamic is much misused, and I think that is a good thing.

Rudolf Steiner was one of the early promoters of a sustainable agriculture, but was mixed up with a neo-spiritualism that took the information processing ability of living organisms improperly as projections from a "higher" spiritual plane.

To put it bluntly, to Steiner, even rocks have intelligence. I'd kind of agree, in that I've encountered plenty of people with the intelligence of rocks, but I wouldn't count on smart rocks to help me make wine.

When I read "Biodynamic" now, I just hope that it indicates a greater attention to the growing process, and not voodoo oenologics.

Thank you. I also picked up Jamie Goode's book. He has an interesting piece on it. I just finished an interesting conversation with 2 vineyard managers from Napa Valley who are both successful and have opposing views on the organic/bio dynamic practice as it relates to the ROI.

quote:

To put it bluntly, to Steiner, even rocks have intelligence. I'd kind of agree, in that I've encountered plenty of people with the intelligence of rocks, but I wouldn't count on smart rocks to help me make wine

Hilarious!

I read the book by Nicholas Joly. Yikes!

John - when Goethe died, Steiner put together his papers and got to know his poetry as well as his other interests, which included the occult, alchemy, astrology, and the science of the day. That mishmash is what inspired biodynamics and is why it includes so much about the planetary influences and the material changes in the soil. By incorporating a crabbed view of "modern" science, they can claim that everything is fundamentally energy (electrons and so on) so their beliefs are justified. It's really insane on one level but as CdP suggests, you can count on them to pay attention to the growing of the fruit and the care of the vineyards. They're both sustainable and organic.

And it by no means guarantees that they will make better or even good wine than someone who is not biodynamic.