I'm bewilderd by tasting notes on dry red wines that sound like the taster is drinking Hawaiian punch. Fruit without sugar is very difficult for me to taste, however If i take a dry Cab. Sav. add some sugar and lemon juice to it and freeze it into a sherbert it tastes like pure grape juice with intense fruit flavor. I've eaten blueberries in Alaska that never developed sugar due to the short growing season,they had blueberry flavor but without sugar i can't say it was a desirable taste. I've even read Mike Jacksons notes on whiskey that he says taste like peaches and mango's I'm definately not able to taste fruit in whiskey. What can I do to sharpen up my tasting skills? Ok the blood is in the water,what's that I hear? It sounds like John Williams theme to Jaws . Help its Gruenha... aaakk.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Walt,
"I can't remember the last time I got drunk" Ollie North " Love means never having to say your sorry." Richard M. Nixon
You're certainly not alone in trying to sharpen your tasting skills. Identifying wine aromas is probably the most difficult part of tasting.
First, let's agree on some terminology and take a peek at how your sniffer and taster work.
Aromas are sensed in your nasal passages. There are thousands of aromas; they include blueberry, mango, vanilla, oak and all those other scents.
Tastes are sensed by your tastebuds, which are mainly located on your tongue. There are only four tastes in wine: sweet, tart, bitter and umami.
Does the presence of sugar boost your ability to perceive fruit aromas? Hmmm... your brain could associate sweetness with ripe fruit and make you think that you're smelling fruit.
Recognition of aromas is based on two factors: the acuity of your senses and your odor memory.
The acuity of your senses is mostly genetically predetermined, so there's not a lot you can do to improve it. That said, you can turn up the volume on your senses by knowing how they work (the reason for the physiology lesson above) and how they react to various stimuli (i.e. sugars taste sweet and have a rich, cloying mouthfeel).
So, the area that you can improve is your odor memory; you need to train your brain to remember scents. Here are a couple suggestions:
1. Smell everything in your kitchen; fruits, vegetables, spices.
2. Compare the scents of various foods. Buy some berries (strawberry, blueberry and raspberry), put them into separate bowls and crush them to release their aromas. Sniff each bowl of fruit and see how they are different. After you've sniffed them a few times, try covering each bowl with a piece of paper and sniffing them blind so you have to identify each fruit.
4. Refer to tasting notes as you taste wine. A number of wineries and wine stores supply tasting notes online; you can also get tasting notes from Wine Spectator.
Hope that helps, Walt. ??
Anyone else on the board have suggestions for improving odor memory?
Gloria Maroti Frazee director of education -- and video Wine Spectator
Posts: 194 | Location: NYC | Registered: Nov 14, 2001
It's all about the tongue, Walt, and yours is just not sharp enough. You've got one of those fancy knife sharpeners, like Wusthof? Applying gentle, but even pressure, slowly sharpen the sides of your tongue - these areas are loaded with tutti frutti sensors, they just need to be exposed a little. Try that first and let me now how it goes.
Next lesson - "Honing and general sharpness maintanence".
Posts: 6969 | Location: ]0^0[ | Registered: Aug 21, 2002
walt, the aroma has nothing to do with sugar! you have to distinguish the mouthfeeling: -sweet, -sour, salty, bitter, -hot and -drying out, -velvet, -grip .... or the aroma/taste: all that you personally can distinguish, aroma-professional at givaudan reconizes several thousand aromas, normal people maybe only hundert.
i personally don't like those aromakids because they smell quite diffrent to the real.
riedel sells a black-riesling glass, let youre partner do something into the glass, and try only by nose to reconize. as it is always in life "from nothing comes nothing". so, if you exercise twice a week, after years you will get on peak.
a side note: it hasn't only good sides, have a good nose and know several aromas and if they are natural or natural-identic, it will makes you (as i) fear from going to eat in gastronomy, walk behind people using parfum/cologne, been in locals witch are be-fragranced, and the "normal" people do not understand you if you tell them how you feel like when you smell.
sometimes walking i have to change street side to refuge from the pain of someonce deodorant, or smoke. somtimes in rooms i get headache, worst in cars with those "tree's". i really hate industrial-food, not only because i know ingrediance but for it's taste. an so on.
_______________________________ I´ll check the forum frequently, just write Tsunami, and i will find you ;-)
Posts: 2569 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: Nov 08, 2001
You're certainly not alone in trying to sharpen your tasting skills. Identifying wine aromas is probably the most difficult part of tasting.
First, let's agree on some terminology and take a peek at how your sniffer and taster work.
Aromas are sensed in your nasal passages. There are thousands of aromas; they include blueberry, mango, vanilla, oak and all those other scents.
Tastes are sensed by your tastebuds, which are mainly located on your tongue. There are only four tastes in wine: sweet, tart, bitter and umami.
Does the presence of sugar boost your ability to perceive fruit aromas? Hmmm... your brain could associate sweetness with ripe fruit and make you think that you're smelling fruit.
Recognition of aromas is based on two factors: the acuity of your senses and your odor memory.
The acuity of your senses is mostly genetically predetermined, so there's not a lot you can do to improve it. That said, you can turn up the volume on your senses by knowing how they work (the reason for the physiology lesson above) and how they react to various stimuli (i.e. sugars taste sweet and have a rich, cloying mouthfeel).
So, the area that you can improve is your odor memory; you need to train your brain to remember scents. Here are a couple suggestions:
1. Smell everything in your kitchen; fruits, vegetables, spices.
2. Compare the scents of various foods. Buy some berries (strawberry, blueberry and raspberry), put them into separate bowls and crush them to release their aromas. Sniff each bowl of fruit and see how they are different. After you've sniffed them a few times, try covering each bowl with a piece of paper and sniffing them blind so you have to identify each fruit.
4. Refer to tasting notes as you taste wine. A number of wineries and wine stores supply tasting notes online; you can also get tasting notes from Wine Spectator.
Hope that helps, Walt. ??
Anyone else on the board have suggestions for improving odor memory?
Thanks. I have only been able to taste the 4 tastes in wine because thats all there are. I was under the mistaken impression that people could taste fruit in wine when they are really discribing aromas. I don't have any problem detecting aromas in food I've been a cook for 30 years and i have vivid memories of all the fruit that came off the trees or vines where i grew up in PA. I'm just having trouble detecting those aromas in wine.Vanilla bean is a very powerful aroma but iv'e never detected in in wine even though chemical analisis indicate it's presence in oaked chards.If i put a vanilla bean in a 5 pound bag of sugar I can smell the vanilla in the sugar ,no problem. I'm goin to try ageing some red wine as, a brick red wine seems to have much more aroma than the purple kind to me.
"I can't remember the last time I got drunk" Ollie North " Love means never having to say your sorry." Richard M. Nixon
Originally posted by grunhauser: It's all about the tongue, Walt, and yours is just not sharp enough. You've got one of those fancy knife sharpeners, like Wusthof? Applying gentle, but even pressure, slowly sharpen the sides of your tongue - these areas are loaded with tutti frutti sensors, they just need to be exposed a little. Try that first and let me now how it goes.
Next lesson - "Honing and general sharpness maintanence".
I just use a belt sander.
"I can't remember the last time I got drunk" Ollie North " Love means never having to say your sorry." Richard M. Nixon
What Gloria said is great advice to identify the different fruits in a wine. But also try a “flight” of wines. These can be either from the same varietal or distinctly different ones. If they are of the same varietal, try to get wines of a similar age but from very different regions. An example would be to get Pinot Noir’s from California, Oregon and Burgundy - you will be amazed at the differences and this will help you identify the fruit components in this varietal.
When you read a critics review of a wine, just remember that what he is describing is often the flavors and nuances that separate it or distinguish it from the other wines of the same varietal.
___________________________________________________ It's good to try them young too and then let them age - James Suckling Infanticide can be very satisfying - Robert Parker I drink mine young to avoid disappointments - James Laube
Posts: 4774 | Location: Atlanta, GA | Registered: Jun 03, 2004
There are several ways to improve the aromas a wine gives off.
The first is not to serve it too cold, especially whites.
You can use a capped tasting glass, which traps the aromas in the glass. Another, less refined, way of achieving this effect is to put the flat of your hand over the glass and shaking the buggery out of it.
Thirdly is the techniques of sucking air in whilst you hold the wine in your mouth. The aim is to get the aromas percolating in your sinus cavities. This does improve the perception of aromas, but is not a technique I recommend if you're taking that someone special out on a date.
It was my Uncle George who discovered that alcohol was a food well in advance of modern medical thought. - P. G. Wodehouse
Posts: 3386 | Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia | Registered: Jan 06, 2003
What's appropriate in a "tutti frutti" post, Joe? Brown-nosing the substitute teacher?
Schoolmarm said nothing new, leaving her second student more confused than enlightened. (no offense, Walter) Look at him here, the man knows what he is talking about and he knows you guys fork out made up tasting notes that have more to do with your sweet childhood memories than the actual wine.
Good point, Walt.
Posts: 6969 | Location: ]0^0[ | Registered: Aug 21, 2002
maybe you allready do this (i write this only to make shure you are on the right path):
maybe you should change youre approach. do not search a sertain aroma in wines, you should try to speak out what you find in the wine you have in youre glas.
_______________________________ I´ll check the forum frequently, just write Tsunami, and i will find you ;-)
Posts: 2569 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: Nov 08, 2001
walt, are you still working! (cooking) i think they left one thing out.burning the tongue. most of the people here work in the front of the house. give it time. iam 52 and started cooking at 14. and my buds are just starting to pick things out better. an on top of that wines are changing. they are makeing them with more fruit then ever. oh i retired 4 years ago. and that has helped ,but do all the cooking home.(stay at home dad now with twinns a even tougher job) the training part is the hardest.
What's appropriate in a "tutti frutti" post, Joe? Brown-nosing the substitute teacher?
Schoolmarm said nothing new, leaving her second student more confused than enlightened. (no offense, Walter) Look at him here, the man knows what he is talking about and he knows you guys fork out made up tasting notes that have more to do with your sweet childhood memories than the actual wine.
Good point, Walt.
I thought your post was inappropriate.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: wineismylife,
Joe ----- Wine is like potato chips around me...if it's open, it's gone.
Good point, GreenDrazi. Whenever possible, I try to taste at least two wines side by side; the comparison helps point out the features of each wine. I usually ask the retailer or barkeep to suggest a pair of wines that will be interesting to taste side-by-side.
And thanks for the additional info, Pauly. Pulling air in through the wine in your mouth or swishing the wine around in your mouth is the same as swirling the wine around in your glass; both actions release scents from the liquid into the air so you can smell them. Geek Warning: the techno term for releasing the scents is "volatilizing the esters."
Tsunami suggested changing the approach and not looking for specific aromas and just speaking about what you find in your glass. Another good point. I'll take it even further and suggest that you simply sniff and sip and swish the wine without even trying to say anything about it. It really helps to get an overall impression of the wine first, before you start describing it.
Tsunami also mentioned aroma kits. On the few occasions that I've used them, they seem to help some people and not others. It is true that the aromas only approximate the scents found in wine. But then it's also true that the scents in wine only approximate the scents found in foods; they are usually not exactly the same. Besides, foods vary too; if you sampled four bananas side-by-side, they could each be quite different with one being riper and sweeter and more aromatic and another more delicate, greener scents.
And wineismylife, thank you for the thumbs-up. I am earnest about creating a forum where people can enjoy learning about wine.
Posts: 194 | Location: NYC | Registered: Nov 14, 2001
you are correct, grunhauser: salty is another taste. i tend to not mention it with wine because, although there is some salt in wine (mainly in the form of potassium), it is present in such low concentrations that it is undetectable as a taste. some sensory scientists think the miniscule amounts of salt might turn up the volume on wine's aromas and flavors, as it does with other foods.
as for umami, the most straightforward way i've found to experience it is to put a drop of soy sauce on my tongue. it's got a savory, brothy taste and a rich, silky mouthfeel. you can also sense umami in sauteed mushrooms and MSG. in wine, you're mostly likely to find umami in mature reds.
...and scientists say that umami is definitely a taste; they've identified umami taste receptors in the old taste buds. thanks for the link, Purple Teeth.
Posts: 194 | Location: NYC | Registered: Nov 14, 2001
