We visted this winery in Niagara-on-the-Lake 17 days ago.The main building is huge and the tasting room was crowded when we first arrived, so we left and returned later. I believe there are four series of wines produced at the winery and we tasted only the top two along with the ice wines. The wines:

The first three wines were Proprietor's Grand Reserve Wines:

2004 Riesling, 11.8% alcohol, $17-
Grapefruit nose. Crisp citrus flavors. 84

2004 Gewurtztraminer, 12.6% alcohol, $19-
Light perfumed nose. Citrus flavors. Flat. 80

2002 Chardonnay, $19-
Oak and tropical fruit nose. Buttery pineapple flavors. 84

The next two wines are from the Delaine Vineyard Series:

2002 Merlot, 13.3% alcohol, $25-
Beautiful nose of chocolate and berries. Concentrated. Young. 84

2002 Cabernet-Merlot, 50% Cabernet Sauvignon, 50% Merlot, 13.1% alcohol, $30- Cedar and dark fruit nose. Blackberry flavor. A little sharp. 83

2002 Vidal Icewine, 10% alcohol, $46-
Dried fruit and raisin nose. Apricot flavor. Nice acidity. 90

2002 Gewurtztraminer Icewine, 9.5% alcohol, $63-
Musty dried fruit nose. Honey flavor. Nice balance. 91

2002 Riesling Icewine, 8.6% alcohol, $63-
Light nose of dried fruit and honey. Very sweet. A little cloying. 91

2001 Riesling Icewine, 8% alcohol, $63-
Honeyed raisin nose. Perfect balance. 94

When at the winery, I thought the Delaine Vineyards 2002 cab/merlot was one of the better reds we've tried over there, so I bought 2 bottles. Opened one last night, decanted for 1/2 hour then had with strip steak. Well, I was wrong. Your comments are right on target. Some dark fruit, some wood, and a sharp finish. It did ease up somewhat at the end, about 1 1/2 later. Maybe the bottle we tried at the vineard had hours of air time, who knows? The fruit was much more evident at that time. Will wait 2 years and try the other bottle. I'm nearly done experimenting with Ontario reds.

Most of them are disappointinmg, but I think overall the quality is improving.

One variable I encountered at some of the tasting rooms was how long the bottles had been open. Several times (3 or 4), I told the tasting room people that the wines were madeirized, just by the smell. When I asked how long the bottles had been open, the answer was either "2 days" or "I don't know." It's in the wineries' best interests to prevent that from recurring. Nobody will buy a wine they taste that is madeirized. (Well, almost nobody)

Honestly, I am a bit surprised that after so many times being to Niagara, you are still visiting the big-production vineries that rarely produce anything exciting (I mean dry wines). Lakeview, Inniskillin, Vineland, J-T with Stratus being one notable exeption. It is just like going to Australia and limiting yourself to tasting rooms of Lindemans and Rosemount.
Just out of curiosity, why not visit Fielding, Palatine Hills, Flat Rock, Maleta, Angel's Gate or even Peninsula Ridge for that matter... - at least hoping for some unexpected discovery. This is not to say that wines of the wineries mentioned above are great or outstanding, but ratio of something "not bad" to "yuck" is definitely better.

Coming back to J-T, I was there about a month ago and was disappointed with most of the wines, especially the Grand Reserve (gold label ones). I understand that their best Delaine bottling (2002 Chard, 92 pts by Canadian Wine Awards, which should be equivalent to 87-88 Board-O points) is long gone. Their first, 2001(?) bottling of Chard and Riesling have been quite nice too, 88 pts for Chrd and 86-87 for Riesling in my book).

Still, judging Ontario's development by J-T and Inniskillin is a bit strange.

No, strange is jumping to the conclusion that I judged Ontario by Jackson-Triggs and Inniskillin. I haven't posted all my notes yet. By the way, Peninsula Ridge was one of the worst wineries we visited in the area. If you judge Ontario by their wines, then you need to expand your very limited horizons.

Sorry for jumping to conclusions without waiting for all your posts. My fault. Please accept my apologies.

As far as Peninsula Ridge is concerned, if you re-read my previous post, you will notice that I do mention that "This is not to say that wines of the wineries mentioned above are great or outstanding, but ratio of something "not bad" to "yuck" is definitely better." Hope this is clear enough that I do not judge Ontario wines by this or any other single winery. That is being said, there is one wine from Peninsula Ridge that I do enjoy - 2003 Inox Chardonnay (cannot wait for your notes on this one, my bet is 82-83 pts., nothing that has "Ontario" on its label deserves more, right?). Do not like their other wines, white or red, however their Sauvignon Blanc does have its fans.
Still one good wine out of about dozen is a better good/yuck ratio than Inniskillin, J-T and others big guys.

Your memory must be as bad as mine. I scored a number of dry wines higher than 82-83. Most of the sweet wines were 90 or higher. As far as nothing from Ontario being worth more than 82-83, if we're talking about dry wines, 82-83 seems to be the median. Not much good dry wine is produced in Ontario. If you think a lot of good dry wine is produced in Ontario, you might try some of our NY state wines. You'll like them too.

Sure, I am talking about the dry wines. Sweet ones are not exactly my cup of tea. I am pretty much in agreement with you as far as reds are concerned. 99% are just disappointment. I have tried, as a patriotic wine lover, to find greatness, but to no awail. Still there are few reds that I do like: 2002 Inniskillin Pinot Noir Reserve (not the Founder's one), 2002 Stoney Ridge Founder's Reserve Meritage, 13th Street Sandstone Gamay (not sure if it was 2001 or 2002), 2002 Niagara College Pinot Noir (have you ever visited them?) and 2001(?) Hernder Cab Franc Unfiltered. This is pretty much it. I do believe in whites more: Chards, Rieslings and some Sauvignon Blancs. Problem here is consistency. 1999 Malivoire Moira Chard - great wine. Other vintages - not really. 2000 Chateau des Charmes Gewurz St. David's Bench- really Alsatian style. 2002 of the same one is one level lower, while 2003 is blah. 2000 Maleta Riesling Reserve - can compete with any Mosel Kabinett. Newer vintages are not up to the challenge. I just feel that good wines happen more by accident than by design.
That is being said, most of Finger Lakes wines I have tried here are on the level of so-so Ontario wines.

And no, I do not think that there are a lot of good dry wines in Nagara, but there are always some diamonds in the rough....

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dmytro,

FWIW - Tied for the best Chardonnay I've ever had from Ontario was the 2000 Chardonnay Reserve from Peninsula Ridge. Extremely well balanced and elegant, very Burgundian in style. Had 2 bottles, the second IMO was clearly 90 points on anyone's scale.

My 2 cents

quote:

Originally posted by Dmytro:
Honestly, I am a bit surprised that after so many times being to Niagara, you are still visiting the big-production vineries that rarely produce anything exciting (I mean dry wines). Lakeview, Inniskillin, Vineland, J-T with Stratus being one notable exeption. It is just like going to Australia and limiting yourself to tasting rooms of Lindemans and Rosemount.


Just out of curiosity, why not visit Fielding, Palatine Hills, Flat Rock, Maleta, Angel's Gate or even Peninsula Ridge for that matter... - at least hoping for some unexpected discovery. This is not to say that wines of the wineries mentioned above are great or outstanding, but ratio of something "not bad" to "yuck" is definitely better.

Coming back to J-T, I was there about a month ago and was disappointed with most of the wines, especially the Grand Reserve (gold label ones). I understand that their best Delaine bottling (2002 Chard, 92 pts by Canadian Wine Awards, which should be equivalent to 87-88 Board-O points) is long gone. Their first, 2001(?) bottling of Chard and Riesling have been quite nice too, 88 pts for Chrd and 86-87 for Riesling in my book).

Still, judging Ontario's development by J-T and Inniskillin is a bit strange.

To your list I would add Creekside and Legends. Creekside has a $12 Cabernets. A friend and I sampled it at the winery in early August, loved it for the price (I'd say that is was an 85 in the winery) and bought a case. We got together to work on a project about a week later and cracked open a bottle. Somewhat disappointing. so we left the decanted wine on the table and came back a couple of hours later only to find the room had a beautiful aroma. The wine had belatedly opened and was as nice, or nicer, than it had tasted in the winery. Creekside also does a nice Pinot Noir.

At Legends, they have a few 85-88 point reserve reds, but the one that caught my eye this time was a Maria Felt pinot noir made from the only 2003 Maria Felt grapes grown in Canada. I gave it a high end of the range score (88)and after having my second bottle at home, wish I had bought more. And I think the Cab Franc Icewine at Legends is the best in Niagara. Properly chilled, it falls in the 93-95 range. It is extraordinary, and if one routinely gives Niagara icewines a score in the low 90s, this one is a 95.

Architectually, some of the most unique wineries in Niagara are the newest, like Stratus. Fielding, Angel's Gate and Flat Rock are all new and magnificent. Right now, their whites are better than their reds. The Nadja Riesling at Flat Rock is excellent, and Flat Rock also had (now sold out)a three white wine blend called "Twisted" that sold for $15CAD and which I really liked.

Again with reds, a lot of smaller wineries do better with upper range wines than the mass producers that Board-O largely frequents. Kacaba had a tremendous run with its 2002 reds - the Syrah, Merlot, Cab Franc and Meritage all scored well, but are highly tannic and need 2-5 years of aging or lots of decanting to bring out their. Stoney Ridge down the street makes a nice Cab Franc Reserve.

As I have said before, no winery in Niagara is strong across the board, but many have one or two wines that you seek out. Also, the vintage matters. For reds, 2002 was great, and I have great expectations for 2005. For inbetween years, I gravitate more towards the whites, though a wine like the 2003 Maria Felt pino at Legends keeps me honest. There are a number of surprisingly good cheap whites, like Vineland's 2003 dry riesling and Chateau des Charmes 2003 riesling, which is something like $11. Riesling producers are starting to craft low-end wines that are a little more complex and dispense with the old anti-freeze aftertaste.

As for Peninsula Ridge, the wine I like their is the $15 Cabernets which Board-O doesn't seem to have tried. That's the difference between making occasional visits to Niagara and going several times a year and doing a little homework in advance. I know the wines I am looking for. Niagara is improving. Some of the new wineries will outpace the old stalwarts. The improvement for the region as a whole won't be linear. I imagine 2004 reds will be disappointing because it was a cold, wet, dreary summer.

Sure Niagara is improving, but I have visited wineries that you seem to like and found them dreadful. I don't go back to Creekside anymore. If they somehow underwent a metamorphosis in the last couple of years, then I guess I missed it. I'll live. Their wines were dreadful the 3 or 4 previous times we went there. Too bad, since it's so close to the Inn on the Twenty.

As far as Peninsula Ridge, we've been there 5 or 6 times. I no longer try those wonderful $15 Cabs you love because I've alwasy found them undrinkable swill.

I've been to Stoney Ridge maybe more than any winery in my life and their dry wines, at their very best are low 80 point mediocre wines, and that's the very best.

I applaud your nationalism, but it sure is clouding your judgement. Niagara, as well as NY, is eons away from the world's better wine producing regions.

quote:

There are a number of surprisingly good cheap whites

Stock up!

quote:

Niagara, as well as NY, is eons away from the world's better wine producing regions

And for dry reds, has the climate working against it.

I have to agree, gator. We visited Long Island wineries last year. They pour their Cab Francs with a smile as if they're good. They're mostly horrid. For some reason, Cab Franc does not do well on long Island. it produces sharp, harsh, uncomplicated wines. In Canada, the wineries appear proud of their Bordeaux type blends. A few are good wines, but nothing is outstanding. Many of them are simply mediocre wine.