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TN: 2005 Chateau Puygueraud (France, Bordeaux, Libournais, Cotes de Francs)
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Originally posted by WineTrooper:
W+A, no worries you may be correct. I am just curious if Cotes de Francs estates tended to go heavy on the Cab Franc/Malbec.


Oh, I'm curious now. The WS blend sure makes more sense, but I did find my notes at work. The blend was a I recall.

I'm soooo confused. Wink
 
Posts: 30256 | Location: Dallas, TX & Santa Fe, NM | Registered: Feb 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by gigabit:


Would that particular blend be typical of North bank or South bank Bordeaux? Razz


The answer is... YES. Razz
 
Posts: 30256 | Location: Dallas, TX & Santa Fe, NM | Registered: Feb 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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O.K. guys, sorry to be such a juvenile interloper. I shall relegate myself to the kid's table and partake of some vintage 2008 orange Kool-Aid. Big Grin
 
Posts: 522 | Location: Michigan | Registered: Aug 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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http://www.caros.co.nz/shop/buy/item/0/3030/2005-chateau-puygueraud.html

Here they say the 2005 blend is exactly as you recall.... Confused
 
Posts: 522 | Location: Michigan | Registered: Aug 18, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by thirsty man:
before anyone chimes in on the QPR of the wine and relates how they used to split a bottle of this wine with Honus Wagner and it only cost a nickel - Try the wine. I think it is better than many $50 bordeauxs and I think its a steal at $30.


That was quite a funny line..I'm usually the first to say.. 'i remember when..'
Bought a case of the '98 upon release at $12/per)--insert Honus Wagnor line here Razz
I had bottle a year ago and it was still delicious and I did not hesitate to buy a case of the 05' when it when it was released. A Great buy no doubt.
 
Posts: 96 | Location: Houston, tx | Registered: Jul 17, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by wine+art:
quote:
Originally posted by WineTrooper:
W+A, no worries you may be correct. I am just curious if Cotes de Francs estates tended to go heavy on the Cab Franc/Malbec.


Oh, I'm curious now. The WS blend sure makes more sense, but I did find my notes at work. The blend was a I recall.

I'm soooo confused. Wink

The reason for the confusion is that Puygueraud also makes (in some vintages) a Cuvée George bottling, which is typically the 35% Malbec, 35% Cabernet Franc, 20% Merlot and 10% Cabernet Sauvignon blend that you mentioned earlier. They made only the regular bottling in 2005, which is 70%Merlot, 25% cab franc, 5% malbec as indicated above.


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Posts: 123 | Location: Kansas City Area | Registered: May 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by thirsty man:
before anyone chimes in on the QPR of the wine and relates how they used to split a bottle of this wine with Honus Wagner and it only cost a nickel - Try the wine. I think it is better than many $50 bordeauxs and I think its a steal at $30.


Well, I guess Honus is young again, since Zachys (typically a retailer who prices on the high end) dropped their price tag from $30 to $24 or month or so ago.

Also available at Calvert Woodley for $20.
 
Posts: 427 | Registered: Feb 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by JimBrennan:
quote:
Originally posted by thirsty man:
before anyone chimes in on the QPR of the wine and relates how they used to split a bottle of this wine with Honus Wagner and it only cost a nickel - Try the wine. I think it is better than many $50 bordeauxs and I think its a steal at $30.


Well, I guess Honus is young again, since Zachys (typically a retailer who prices on the high end) dropped their price tag from $30 to $24 or month or so ago.

Also available at Calvert Woodley for $20.


Hey - a good deal at $30 is a better deal at $20! Thanks for letting us know - I'll try to pick up a few more to share with Honus. Wink
 
Posts: 2104 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I agree that a quality wine offered at $15 en primeur is a reasonable buy for $20.

Clearly, however, $30 was overpriced by retailers trying to see how much they could collect on release in conjunction with in-bottle ratings. Realistically, there was no way that a wine offered for $15 en primeur was going to hold a 100% once the initial post-score in-bottle price surge was over.
 
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I may have to pop a second bottle of this one (you're not reading this are you W+A??? Wink)


-IB

"Wine only turns into alcohol if you let it sit."---Lindsay Bluth
 
Posts: 8891 | Location: The Circle City | Registered: Nov 24, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by JimBrennan:
I agree that a quality wine offered at $15 en primeur is a reasonable buy for $20.

Clearly, however, $30 was overpriced by retailers trying to see how much they could collect on release in conjunction with in-bottle ratings. Realistically, there was no way that a wine offered for $15 en primeur was going to hold a 100% once the initial post-score in-bottle price surge was over.


Take the label away. A 92 point 2005 Bordeaux for $30 is acceptable QPR.
 
Posts: 1049 | Location: New York City | Registered: May 05, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Pricing is about demand, with only a loose relationship to quality. And, of course, your argument begs the question of whether you'd rate it 92 double-blind... one man's 92 is another's 89 (which is the WA score fwiw)... or 85 or 95 or... etc.

Realistically, with a good vintage like 2005, there are many petit Bordeaux that would compare favorably for no more than $20, with the difference being that Suckling, Parker, etc, only review a handful and many fly under the radar.

In any case, demand doesn't merit the price, which is why it's coming down. Still, for those of you other there hell-bent on paying more than you need to, there's always these guys:
https://www.lsw.com/stores/nejaimes/wineselector/index....80393ddb795312779b6b
Razz
 
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I have tried the wine and thought it was a good buy for $30. I have tried other nonrated wines from 2005 and thought some were good buys and some were not. None of the ones I have found locally were as good as the Puygueraud (although all were easier to spell). Trust me when I say I would prefer to pay $20 than $30 - but either way I think the QPR at $30 is there (and of course even better at $20). I'll be buying more to lay down.

G
 
Posts: 2104 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: Feb 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by JimBrennan:
Pricing is about demand, with only a loose relationship to quality. And, of course, your argument begs the question of whether you'd rate it 92 double-blind... one man's 92 is another's 89 (which is the WA score fwiw)... or 85 or 95 or... etc.

Realistically, with a good vintage like 2005, there are many petit Bordeaux that would compare favorably for no more than $20, with the difference being that Suckling, Parker, etc, only review a handful and many fly under the radar.


Care to help us out by listing several? Not much available in Toronto yet, but the ones that I have tried in this price range have been more miss than hit, and I don't think any were as good as the Puygueraud, though several were not without their charm. I would love more of these but I doubt our LCBO will get more of the 2005. I guess suggestions from people in Toronto would be the only ones that are useful, but I think I have already tried most of the $20-$35 2005 bordeaux that I have seen at the LCBO.


"No TV and no beer make Homer...something, something"
 
Posts: 2802 | Location: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Already did, earlier in this thread in fact (page 1). Of course, tastes vary...

You guys in Canada have a tough way to go with the LCBO pricing... $30 CAD probably isn't a bad deal from that perspective.
 
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Originally posted by JimBrennan:
Already did, earlier in this thread in fact (page 1). Of course, tastes vary...

You guys in Canada have a tough way to go with the LCBO pricing... $30 CAD probably isn't a bad deal from that perspective.


Whoops, went straight to page 2 today and did not notice your post (which I probably saw before). I had ordered 15 bottles of beaumont, but ended up cancelling (had to cancel something, spent too much on other 05s), but will see if I can find some of the others. de Fonbel and Faizeau sound familiar, either they were available on futures or I have seen them in LCBO.


"No TV and no beer make Homer...something, something"
 
Posts: 2802 | Location: Toronto, Ontario | Registered: Apr 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by JimBrennan:
I agree that a quality wine offered at $15 en primeur is a reasonable buy for $20.

Clearly, however, $30 was overpriced by retailers trying to see how much they could collect on release in conjunction with in-bottle ratings. Realistically, there was no way that a wine offered for $15 en primeur was going to hold a 100% once the initial post-score in-bottle price surge was over.

There are plenty of 92 point (and less) 05 Bordeaux selling for much more than $30, but I agree that's too high for this wine. I know retailers in my area really mark up Bordeaux to ridiculous prices, especially ones like this that get a higher than expected rating. That's why I end up buying almost all my Bordeaux online or at Costco when they have it.

Even after the rating came out, the Puygueraud has been available online in the low $20's all along. Fortunately I bought a little over a case early on, a few at 13.99, and the rest at 16.99. It's a pretty safe bet in good vintages.


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Posts: 123 | Location: Kansas City Area | Registered: May 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Frank in KS:

There are plenty of 92 point (and less) 05 Bordeaux selling for much more than $30, but I agree that's too high for this wine. I know retailers in my area really mark up Bordeaux to ridiculous prices, especially ones like this that get a higher than expected rating. That's why I end up buying almost all my Bordeaux online or at Costco when they have it.

Even after the rating came out, the Puygueraud has been available online in the low $20's all along. Fortunately I bought a little over a case early on, a few at 13.99, and the rest at 16.99. It's a pretty safe bet in good vintages.


Agreed. If you want to get your hands on top growths, their Right Bank equivalents, or a handful of others (e.g. - Sociando Mallet), then you pay a premium. But (as the various critics tell us frequently) there are literally hundreds of estates below that where there's really very little need to pay any premium, especially in good years where many lesser estates make good and very good wines. Moreover, for every one of these reviewed, there are several others that aren't. And, of course, you have to consider the possibility that one man's 88 is another man's 92 (and vice versa). Granted that the challenge for us is to find these wines since most of us don't get exposed to a few hundred Bdx every year.

For these wines, and this is where I think Puygueraud falls, you're getting taken for a ride IMO if you're paying much more than en primeur + time value of money (e.g. - another 10 to 15%) + change in exchange rates (which actually could be in your favor). I can see a bit of a bump for a WS92, but it's worth pointing out that this wine was a 89 for Parker and an 88 for Tanzer. In a year like 2005, there's a pretty wide selection of $20 wines that one might perceive as falling between 88 and 92 points.
 
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Originally posted by Machine:
quote:
Originally posted by JimBrennan:
Realistically, with a good vintage like 2005, there are many petit Bordeaux that would compare favorably for no more than $20, with the difference being that Suckling, Parker, etc, only review a handful and many fly under the radar.


Care to help us out by listing several?


I agree that Puygueraud at $30 is a rip. I paid $15 for mine on futures. A regional chain here (Total Wine) started at $20 and is now at $33. At that price, I agree with Jim that there are others that didn't get a 92, that are as good or better by most opinions. Ones I have tasted that are recommended and can be likely had for less than Puygueraud include:

Epicurea de Château Martinat (RP 90 WS 87)
Château d'Aiguilhe Querre (RP 91)
Château Gigault Cuvée Viva (RP 89 WS 91)

And 05's I have bought but not personally tasted yet (though I have drank previous vintages often):

Cap de Faugeres (RP 89 WS 89)
Faizeau (RP 90 WS 90)
Aiguilhe (RP 92 WS 92)

All of those I bought for less than $20 off the shelf except for Aiguilhe. It's a $30 wine that I put on the list as it is the same price I paid for the 00 and 03 vintages and was rated 92 by BOTH RP and WS. I would much rather buy that at $30 than Puygueraud as it is normally a $15 wine.
 
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Originally posted by JimBrennan:
Already did, earlier in this thread in fact (page 1). Of course, tastes vary...

You guys in Canada have a tough way to go with the LCBO pricing... $30 CAD probably isn't a bad deal from that perspective.


I thought I paid 23.00 Cdn on futures for this wine and would agree with Mezzo this wine needs time to be enjoyed. At this price I still believe this wine to be an excellant value.

We do have a tough way to go in Ontario for Bordeau but there are some great buys you just have to pick and choose.

Gibby
 
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A slight improvement then? Thank you Mezzo.


"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
 
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O.K., I know this is a hold but I could not wait to try a bottle.

Decanted for one hour prior to tasting. Black. Terrific bouquet, little bit of (unexpected) wet fur funk in the nose on this bottle. At one hour, the wine was found to be firm, without giving much in the fruit department. The balance/acidity was wonderful, however, and it delivered mouthwatering mineral flavors, sweet spices and slick, fine tannins. I layed off the wine for another hour, during which my wife proclaimed it was a delicious wine and knocked down two glasses. Razz In the second hour, the wine was a bit more open, but still tight. Some delicious fruit shone through and promised great things.

92 points. I think this is a fantastic wine and I cannot wait to try it again in about two years.
 
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  • 2005 Château Puygueraud - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, Côtes de Francs (6/25/2011)
    First of my six pack. Decanted for an hour. This nose on this wine is primary, full of berries, and that unexplainable Bordeaux cellar smell. The palate reveals an extremely young wine, with the stuffing for years (20+) to come. Kapow in the mouth! (Save your lewd comments for an offline) I mean this wine is full of dark berries, massive fruit, and balanced oak and acidity. The finish is lengthy and yummylicious. This wine is a baby; if you have multiples don't feel guilty with a couple hour decant. I need to buy some 2009's. 91+ with good potential. (91 pts.)

Posted from CellarTracker


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Posts: 2645 | Location: Edmonton | Registered: Feb 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Popped, poured, put rest in fridge and finished in 48 hours. No vacuuming.

Very open for business. Tannins are much softer than two years ago. Typical mellow plum/cassis, red and black licorice, sweet chocolate/cherry pie and chicory. Smooth and plush. It was not tight at the beginning, and mellowed only a bit with air. Very beautiful, merlot-forward, balanced with fresh acidity and concentrated, plus a smooth and slightly sweet finish.

Drink or hold. 94pts.


-IB

"Wine only turns into alcohol if you let it sit."---Lindsay Bluth
 
Posts: 8891 | Location: The Circle City | Registered: Nov 24, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for the update. I had a bottle at a restaurant about six months ago and did enjoy it. If scoring I would be closer to 90. good qpr.
 
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