Honig is in Napa and makes only Cab and Sauvignon Blanc. This wine was $25, and is excellent for the price.

Very reminicient of a '97 Napa Cab, with dark fruits like black cherry and blackberry, with plush, silky tannins, and a long, elegant finish.

Has the stuff to go at least another four years.

Highly recommended.

It was a good "everyday" Wine. But, aren't you a little too late on it. We have '99s in the stores. I had 2 cases of the '97. All gone.

Seems like an LCC evening for me. Why is it alittle late? The wine is just starting to show how great, for the price, that it really is. It sounds alittle compulsive, IMHO, to drink two cases of 97 cabs that young. LCC, sounds like you need to be alittle more patient with your wine. I understand the need to drink, wine, let those 97 Etudes sit, they will reward you at a later date.

Hey, hey, you are lecturing the wrong person. I am a big proponent of aging Wines to the rightful age. I almost never open a Wine too early.

But, the '97 Honig was an "everyday" Wine for me. And, it will NOT get any better. So, if a Wine is ready-to-go, why would I wait?

You want to age a $20.00 of Wine for 8-10 years. Again, your Wine, your choice (see Landmark post).

[ 10-09-2002, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: love_cab_chard ]

P.S. to FreeTheGrapes: All I meant was that you are Not going to find this Wine in most stores anymore. The '97 that is.

LCC:

Some of us choose to keep good wines in our cellar for years. The '97 Honig is a very nice wine that will drink well for a few more years. I did a search, noted that no one else has posted notes on the wine, and decided to post my humble opinion of the wine.

Congratulations to you on shooting your entire wad of two cases in the last year or so. A fortunate few of us have gained the ability to hold back, having learned the value of prolonging the pleasure and letting things develop over time.

You, too, LLC, might develop an appreciation of nuance and sophistication over time. Stick with it, and you never know...

LCC, on what do you base the firm opinion, that the wine will not get any better? IMHO, a good Cab from such a vintage, will, in fact, develope a rich and smoothe character. That the Honig 97 is an every day wine , for you, wow, that is great. (I wish I had the Mish on this one). As we do not know each another, maybe you can enlighten me with your experiences with wine. From your handle, it seems that there is a wide wide world of wine, that you have, as yet, to try.

Free TG, if you can find some DeLoach "Los Amigos" 97, you will find the next level up from the Honig. Now, that I've been admonished by LCC, for my trying to be helpfull to some one who, obviously does need more time to learn about this passion, I will end this input. LCC just to show where my heat isGO DEVILS1

Hey Grapes:

#1: Read carefully to what I wrote & please do Not mis-quote me or mis-present my statement. Like some other people in this Forum. You chose to take personally. Why, I do Not understand. But, since you did:

You are recommending a Wine that is NO LONGER IN STORES. If you are just stating that I had this & it is a good bottle, Great. But, you are stating "Highly recommended". I assume the '97. Correct? Well, it was a good bottle of Wine. But, NO LONGER IN STORES.

If you are "Highly recommending" Honig as a Wine (in general), then I have news for you. The '98 was Not as good & the price went up. I will No longer buy it. And, will Not recommend it.

#2: Please do NOT lecture me on how to age Wine. As you do NOT know my Wine history & drinking patterns, & I always state to hold Wine to the rightful age, which I did in the Landmark thread again. Please refrain on teaching me on Wine management.

#3. Like I stated, you want to keep Honig for 10 years, it's all yours. Enjoy.

And, I hope we can still be forum pals.

[ 10-10-2002, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: love_cab_chard ]

Whino3:

Just because you are disguise your words does Not mean that you are Not attacking someone. And, I did Not admonish you.

My comment to you. You stated in another thread that Mishy is more knowledgeable that Jones about Wine. And, you value her opinion more. 'NUFF SAID.

I wonder how many people will take any of your Wine opinions/credibility seriously anymore? And, you are judging me?

P.S. There are plenty of people in this Forum that met Jones & know him personally. You stating that something about him & his knowledge does Not make sense. THIS IS A JOKE (to those people). And, you stating that these are NOT his reviews, is even more outrageous & unfair to Mr. Jones. You are speculating unfairly to him & his valuable input in this Forum (in the past). Since you never met the person & never even spoke to him, I think you are being very unfair & judgmental to a person you never even met, saw, said "Hello" to, or know.

He does have all those Wines. He is very knowledgeable. And, I do NOT see people asking you for Wine Recommendations & Newsletters. Comparing Mishy to Jones, & even stating what you stated, says a lot about your Wine knowledge.

...So, questioning my Wine knowledge or any statements about Wine to me (from you) is a compliment to me.

P.S.: As Mishy admits herself & stated many times: that she drinks all her Wines early. I even posted many times to her as an advise to "hold" the appropriate Wine(s).

...And again, you are contradicting yourself.

[ 10-10-2002, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: love_cab_chard ]

I didn't realize that the tasting notes forum was only for wines that are currently available in stores. When someone writes "Highly Recommended" I assume that this means that if you ever come across this wine, you should try it. Whether it is the current vintage shouldn't be an issue.

[ 10-10-2002, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: hoonan ]

By the way, wine-searcher lists one wine shop that still carries the '97 Honig Cab for 25.99.

I have now just BEGUN to pop my '94 cabs. Of course they are not available in stores anymore. But by posting my notes, others will be able to decide whether they should pop theirs, or wait. (Or pour them down the drain, or give them away as Christmas presents). In addition, people may want to seek some out on wine commune, or winebid. There is always value in TN from "older" vintages.
Just because someone says that they recommend a wine doesn't mean that they are saying you should run out to Costco and pick some up.

I answer questions about wine from all over the world (on a number of wine/help sites). One of the most frequently asked questions is when one should drink a specific bottle of wine--when is it at its peak?

It is amazing to me that the relatively wine educated posters on these boards might not recognize that this is determined, to a huge extent, by personal taste. Some prefer the fresh bright fruit of young wines ( I have found that many winemakers fall into this category!) while other are willing to trade some of that fruit for a softer mouth feel, more developed bouquet, and ideally some complexity.

Doesn't mean anybody is right, or anybody is wrong.

But I would say that I have long ago learned that the price of a wine alone doesn't determine how well it ages....

PW

[ 10-10-2002, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: balzaccom ]

LCC:

How did I misquote you? You stated that you had two cases and that they are all gone, did you not?

First of all, as our good friend hoonan has pointed out, the '97 Honig Cab IS still available. Perhaps you should do your home work before mouthing off.

Secondly, as several have pointed out, when did WS change this category to be "Tasting Notes Of Wines That Are Still Available"?

Should you not call out Board-O the next time he posts notes for a 300 year-old Bordeaux? I doubt if it is "available".

I thought the idea here was to share our experiences for others so that we may all learn more about this passion of ours.

Furthermore, I did not take your comments personally. I could try, but am fairly certain that I will have a hard time caring less what you think. I was merely responding to your crass and arrogant reply to my rather innocuous tasting post.

Whether you realize it or not, your reply to my post implies that the '97 Honig is past its prime, a mistake you would never make, and for that matter, it is your ordinary "everyday" wine. In fact, you had two cases, but they are all gone, and you find it rather amusing that someone else would still highly recommend it.

Finally, I realize that you want to be perceived as one who would never allow wine to go past its prime drinking date, but I find it rather unfortunate that you would blow through two cases of a fairly nice wine, without seeing what it would taste like at ten, fifteen or even twenty years. This wine probably wouldn't hold up as well as some others, but you never know. And since it is your ordinary "everyday" wine, certainly you could afford to set aside a couple of bottles to find out. My guess is that you haven’t been drinking wine long enough to have ever tried such an experiment. Perhaps you should ask Board-O about the value of letting a few of your wines age.

So please, if I may, let me restate my opinion to others who may still be interested.

The ’97 Honig is a nice Cab. It is relatively inexpensive for a ’97 Napa Cab, and, if you have it or can get it, I recommend it. It may not be as fruit driven as it was a year or two ago, but if you like a little age on your Cabs, I think it will drink well for a few more years.

I hope that you find that tasting note more to your standards, and I will try to be more careful when posting tasting notes in the future.

Grapes: Re-read my statement, again. Why are you so upset? I stated, "It was a good everyday Wine." And, I feel that is what it is. Nothing more than that. What is wrong with that?

In my opinion, it is a good bottle of Wine. Nothing special. And, that is what I stated. I have my opinion(s). And, I typed my opinion.

If you highly recommend it, Great:

Most stores will Not have it, But, OK...I spoke too soon on that.

This Wine in 1-2 years will be "on-the-way-down".

You want to keep it for 10-20 years, knock yourself out. But, I will post my opinion, "that it is NOT a 10-year Wine, but should be drank NOW". I can do that.

And, I know you do Not agree, but it is True.

And, if someone does find it in the Store(s), I am recommending to drink it asap.

This Wine will NOT get any better. And, if you wait too long you will loose it.

LCC:

Did you even bother to read what I last wrote? I did reread your statement, and tried to explain to you that it comes across as pretentious. When someone posts a wine they recommend and you answer with “everyday wine”, “too late”, and “I had two cases”, you are being an ass.

Maybe it plays different in Jerzee, but most of us try to be a little more civil and a little less pompous.

And I’m not upset in the least. I’m entitled to my opinion just as you are yours. I’m just suggesting that the entire forum would be a less hostile place if members didn’t post statements like yours.

Perhaps, until you supplant Mr. Parker as the preeminent wine guru, a little humility might suit you. For example you don’t KNOW that the ’97 Honig will be gone in one, two or twenty years. You THINK that it will; that is your OPINION, but you do not KNOW that. So word it that way, and you’ll stop annoying people. Unless that is part of your motive.

Just some friendly advice for my wine buddy.

Like a very worthy 1 poster stated once in this forum (who himself does Not really post anymore for several reasons):

"It is a shame that Jones & people as knowledgeable as Jones are Not posting anymore. The majority of people in this Forum will stay @ the level they are & Not likely to progress."

The fact that you like Honig is Great. I like it also. The fact that you think Honig is a Great Wine is Great. It is NOT. The fact that you think it will go 20 years is also Great. It will NOT.

And, all I tried to do is bring that out (to you & others). You do NOT want to listen, so I am finished with this topic. You can do with your Wine as you want.

...Silly me, to think that people join a Wine Forum for Wine advice.

I just hope that most of the people in this Forum do NOT feel that way & are open-minded to all aspects of Wine (including Wine that they bought).

It is a sad state of affairs if most people in this Forum feel that a Wine like Honig (nothing more than a good/everyday bottle of Wine), nothing more, feel that it is something more than that.

If that is the case, then I am in the wrong Forum.

I am Not putting down your Wine. I am saying that this Wine is nothing more than a mediocre/everyday Wine. I do Not think I said anything that wrong. I stated the obvious & the truth.

...If I offended you than I apologize. But, all I did was state the truth (w/o name-calling, unlike some people).

[ 10-10-2002, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: love_cab_chard ]

FreeTheGrapes,
Admit it, you are a philistine, with a tongue of stone and the palate of the most churlish Ukrainian peasant! 97' Honig, Highly Recommended, THE VERY THOUGHT is an affront! The Halls of Bacchus should fall rather than have your unshod feet sully the very grandeur of institution of wine. Go back to inosculating your goat herd and swigging from your 5L bottle of Almaden Mountain Burgundy and NEVER AGAIN question the erudition of those who post here for YOUR benefit. Now, go to the Forum penalty box and feel shame.

-Lets not have eny tahk of eewwww killed ewww? Sir Lancelot, a very RICH and deadly knight from Camelot. . .

-LOOK! The cliffs of INSANITY!

[ 10-10-2002, 08:09 PM: Message edited by: Highlander190 ]

"Jerzee!?!?"

That's it! I'm sending my 'uncle' over to your house, FTG!

What is the friggin deal with some of you people on this site? I am not attacking anybody here, but I do want to say that one mans great find, or excellent wine, is also another mans everyday wine. I also want to point out that to me an everyday wine does not mean that you drink it every day until it is gone. It is nice to still drink a solid effort like the 97 Honig at 5 years old. I myself have never been a fan of Honig but that is my opinion and I respect those that do like it and even possibly treasure it sitting in their cellar, closet or under their bed. These arguments over personal opinions are getting old and tiring, as well as driving away lurkers that I happen to know. Get over yourselves. We have all had different levels of wine and we can all hammer each other if that is what you come here for, but I ask why?
Thank you FTG for the rec. I will look to buy a few of these and see how they are doing. Might be a nice cherry picking wine off of Wine Bid.

[ 10-10-2002, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: winebrat ]

If I may digress back to the topic, thanks FTG for the notes. I have a couple of these and have not had one yet. Also have a couple of 95's left, which was quite a nice wine as well.

CabNut

LCC, I am and will always be a DEVILS fan, and I do have a problem with Denver. We wuz robbed! That said, LCC IS AN ASS. Any one that would open an 97 Etude Cab, even for the well respected Board-o does not know what he, or she is drinking. Kid get with it, you do not IMHO, know what the heck you are doing or drinking, for that matter. To try to puch the rest of us to your way of thinking, by way of the written word, is , well absurd. You have no clue, and never will if, you persit in the vein that you are taking. To sate that the HOing cab will not get any better, in the next two years, shows, well that you do not andmaybe will ever have a clue, as to what we are doing here. You are an embaressment to the wine drinking forum. Your persistence in the fact that you know what you are drinking, and saying, is an affront to us all. Get ovet it. Jones was, and is not what he represents. I could poke enough holes in his statements and revies to make Swiss Cheese seem solid. SHANE LIVES in LCC. You sir, are an Idiot.